To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

have brighter kids so it’s easier for them all to keep up and work without distraction

You think so called brighter kids don't distract?
Brighter than what.....brighter than a plumber, a chef, a hairdresser?

@Wondermule

I just kind of think it's a bit rough at such a young age and hate the school system so don't see why she should have to be knocked by it.

But OP, it’s parents who make decisions like yours that make the system rubbish. By entering your kids, no matter how unsuitable, for the 11+ and then nearly bankrupting yourself to private schools if they don’t pass, you are depriving ‘crap’ schools of fairly able, well adjusted kids. So they are left with less able kids from poorer backgrounds and hence get the reputation for being ‘rubbish’. You’re driving the very system that you decry as unfair.

100% this

If you lie about this, what else will you lie to her about? And despite your certainty that there is no way she could possibly find out, she may well do. What happens for example if she gets to 14 and is having a conversation with a new friend who might have taken it and then asks you what score did she get, can she see the email/paper, will you compound the lie and tell her you can't remember / have lost the info? Or will you then tell her the truth? She will never trust you again. Just because she's a lovely, kind amenable, biddable child now who you are sure would understand and forgive you when she's an adult and has enjoyed a wonderful education at the private school, doesn't mean she'll be like that in a year or two, she could well turn into a hideous, suspicious, resentful and totally normal teenager!

In the end, you've still lied to your child whether she finds out or not. Your daughter should always be able to trust you to tell the truth, if you lie to her, and she does find out, she'll start lying to you, because you did it and you will have no moral high ground.

I wouldn’t lie that would be wrong on many levels.

The key thing is how you (as the adult) frame it. Both my children are at grammar schools and I’ve said to them all along (even now) that all the 11+ shows is how they did in one test on one day. It’s not about passing or failing.

Had my children not got the required Mark my plan was just to say they tried really hard and got a great score of x and we feel that the best school for them is y and we’re v proud of them.

I know someone who did lie - I won’t give details as it’s their personal stuff but it caused no end of problems and resulted in child having a lot of friendship issues as a result.

I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies for that.

But I actually don’t think it’s a great idea to tell her she’s passed if she hasn’t. Kids need to learn to deal with failure. You can’t protect them from it forever and I think you’re possibly taking away the chance of a valuable life lesson if you lie to her. I’d go at it definitely from the angle of try your best, but if you don’t get in it’s no big deal as you can go to *** school and it’ll be lovely. I think that school will really suit you and you’ll be super happy there. Don’t make the 11+ the be all and end all of life, just one of those things you have a go at and if you don’t get in then that’s ok.

I have two dds. Dd1 is super academic and just good at stuff. Dd2 is more average. Luckily no gramma around here and state schools are good. Dd2 has had to put up with just not doing quite as well as her sister all her life. They recently took ballet exams in the same term, dd1 got a distinction, dd2 a merit. But she was fine about it. I wouldn’t have lied to her and said she also got a distinction. But I don’t make things about how well they’ve done, more about enjoying it and learning from the experience. Everyone is different. Dd2 for example is much more socially aware, makes friends easily and is more confident, where dd1 can struggle. Dd2 has stronger friendships and a better social life than dd1, these days I think dd1 is more envious of DD2s social ease then dd2 is of dd1s academic success.

So my point is. Let her be her. If she doesn’t pass then that’s fine. At 11 you should easily be able to turn not passing into a positive if you get it right.

I’m an academic person. I failed my 11+. I subsequently did sports with numerous girls from the grammar I didn’t attend. They were awful, nasty, catty girls. Of course this isn’t all grammar school girls but I consider myself to have had a lucky escape!

Pick the school which is right for your child. Prep her for a different reality than grammar school. Best of luck OP but don’t lie.

Even if she did scrape in, would it really the best school for her if she ended up near the bottom of the set because realistically she was at the wrong school for her? I wouldn't lie either.

But what if you lie and she really wants to go to the grammar school?
She’ll find out somehow and will resent you for it.
Also shouldn’t she be involved in choosing her school as in your original post you said that “ we as parents will choose” Let her have an input too but please don’t lie to her. It’s not the be all and end all to go to a grammar school

I wouldn't lie either. Won't she ask her score? Or won't DD1 ask? It would be odd to sit an exam and not be interested in the result. I think she will compare herself to DD1 anyway, eg. What set she's in, GCSE grades etc. Personally, I think the bigger deal you make it (going to lengths to lie to her), the bigger deal she'll feel it is even if she finds out much later.

I do not think you should lie to your daughter. Children need to learn to be resilient to disappointment as it is inevitable at some point in life.

I can see what you're thinking and why, but I really don't think it's the way to go....firstly, she may very well pass.. Secondly, if she does not, there are benefits in failing at something, dealing with the emotions this generates, and, with time, realising things still turn out ok.... Please don't lie to her if it comes to it... It's very clearly not the right thing to do

Yes, true. You don't pass or fail, you get a score, but there is an automatic qualifying score for the grammar school so it's a pass/fail for getting in.

In that case it sounds like my local grammar which has a cut off score, if you get above that you’ve “passed”. But they only have so many spaces and they then take the nearest 120 kids. So Dd passed the eleven plus but didn’t get a space, missed out by 0.3 of a mile. Any other year she would have got in. So is it possible your Dd could pass but still not get a space?

I swear I've seen this thread before

So she REALLY wants to go to the grammar.

She tries and fails.
You tell her she passed but you picked the other one.
She cries and begs but you're adamant and she finally accepts it.
She goes and she hates it, doesn't settle in and generally unhappy.
She'll always feel it's because you didn't send her to the school she wanted and got into and perhaps even that her life could have been happier and better of you hadn't held her back.

Just be honest. Sensitive and supportive but honesy

You have said that you aren’t tutoring or doing too much with her for it. You have also said that you think that she is borderline as to whether she will get in under what you are doing but that she will probably have more natural ability than those who are tutored like mad for it. (Which is probably accurate.)

So one option is to get her a good tutor. This will probably move her from “borderline” to “comfortably in” and solve the problem. Of course it does raise the stakes if she still doesn’t get in but it sounds like you are fairly confident that won’t happen.

In the end, you've still lied to your child whether she finds out or not. Your daughter should always be able to trust you to tell the truth

This really resonated, thank you.

In that case it sounds like my local grammar which has a cut off score, if you get above that you’ve “passed”. But they only have so many spaces and they then take the nearest 120 kids. So Dd passed the eleven plus but didn’t get a space, missed out by 0.3 of a mile. Any other year she would have got in. So is it possible your Dd could pass but still not get a space

This could be true of other kids yes but we are in the priority area so a qualifying score would get her in no problem.

She may very well get in. This is just contingency planning.

Someone suggested I tutor to make sure she gets in but I think that makes it more high pressure and so more of a ‘failure’ in her eyes if she doesn’t manage. I feel reasonably confident I can prep her within her abilities.

Thanks @likeamillpond it’s so interesting to have the perspective of someone who didn’t pass 11+ and how it’s affected you. I don’t think children should feel that way at her age. I’m working within the system we have.

@AlexaShutUp yes, mine get a "well what are you going to do about it" when they hit a bump in the road. I never say "never mind", my default setting is to assume they will either mind, suss out what went wrong and try again but if they don't give enough fucks, sack it off and put their energy into something they really do care about. I digress.

OP don't lie to your kid. Hire a tutor or at least get some past papers. I know some posters will say its gaming the system but its a test, you wouldn't take a driving test without preparing, or go to a job interview without preparing for it. If she doesn't pass she hasn't failed at life in any way at all.

Just explain the system to her. She's not stupid. And she's not a little girl anymore.

@ThanksItHasPockets

But... DD2 is ME as a child. I just see it and I know that internally, if she doesn't get the score, she will be completely crushed and feel bad about herself forever.

Ah. This is interesting.

No, she isn’t. She is her own person who happens to have some personality traits in common with you. You’re projecting your own childhood personality on to her and not giving her the chance,’or the support, to surprise you with what she can handle.

Fair point, thank you. I do see the similarities to me so strongly and it's hard not to imagine how she will feel as she mirrors me so much (tooo much!)

@randomer

Where on earth is this place with these hideous schools that aren't fit for purpose?

There are lots of places like the place I live, with schools like the schools round here. If the idea is astonishing to you then you're lucky.

@Xyzzzzz

My sister did this with her daughter. She didn’t pass but assumed she did. She’s continued to thrive at the school she got accepted into.

Yes I would do the same but I would burn the letter - leave no absolutely no trace

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Well, if you want to reinforce a belief that she is inferior to her Dsis, that's the way to do it. She is bound to find out. You're sending the message that failing her 11+ is so terrible that you couldn't even tell her.

That's not at all how I feel but I can see how it could be interpreted as that. Thank you.

The other thing is, because she's sweet and bright, she may well realise that if she doesn't pass 11+ we are going to have to spend a lot of money on her education and she will feel bad about that as she knows we are not rolling in it. I don't want her to take on any responsibility for that so the 'lie' would absolve her of responsibility for the expense.