To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

You risk your relationship when she finds out you are a liar.
I wouldn't have entered any of my dc for this reason.

I honestly think you underestimate her, and this is not a criticism - we are so keen to protect our children from pain and disappointment that we don’t always know their resilience.

You say that she is bright and biddable. If she trusts you enough to accept your choice of school for her then she will also trust you when you sit her down and explain, with love, that one possible outcome of the 11+ is that she may not pass, in which case she will go to School B, but that her worth is in no way tied to the outcome of this exam.

Tough one, you know your child best.
But if she really wants to go to the grammar, would she resent you for not sending her there?
I'd start now by preparing her by saying it doesn't matter if she passes or doesn't pass, either way she'll get into a good school and you will love her just as much etc etc.

I understand your good intentions here, but I wouldn't lie. If you do, and she eventually discovers or suspects the truth, it would be worse for her than if you'd told the truth to start with ('This was such a terrible failure on my part that Mum couldn't even bring herself to tell me!')

Either don't put her in for the 11+, or tell the truth. If you are philosophical and unemotional about a failure, she probably will follow your lead. It sounds trite, but if you show devastation and serious disappointment, she is likely to feel devastated as well. And never reproach her -or allow her sister or other family members to do so-, either now or at any time in the future: 'If you'd worked harder at school, we wouldn't be having to spend all this money on private school and could afford to have or do X!'

Is this a real question? Really cannot believe anyone would contemplate this. It is jaw dropping.

I am so glad we do not live in a grammar area. The whole system is skewed towards rich parents who get extra tutors for the kids, or even send them to prep school then grammar school. Social engineering at it's finest . And leads to questions like OPs. But this is a whole other thread, sorry to hijack yours OP, but I am in shock at the pressure you must feel to even envisage this.

Hope whatever you decide all works out well for your daughter.

Of course you dont lie.

If she cant accept and work through such a simple failure, its probably not worth sending her to private school either.

I'm amazed how many people are berating the OP for wanting to lie but suggesting instead that her DD shouldn't try in case she fails... Because that's clearly a great lesson!

I would be very honest about it all. She needs to be prepared to fail. Tell her it might happen, that all children taking the test are very bright and how this is just one test, some people will perform better than expected, some will do worse than expected. Have a chat about private school, explain that this may be the alternative if she doesn't pass the 11+, so that there is no pressure as she has an amazing back up plan. Tell her you know she will do well wherever she goes.
If she fails she will have the emotional resilience to deal with it, if she passes then she will be even happier.

Lol, my parents would not only have told me, but would have told me off and penalised me for failing. Parents these days need to grow a pair.

I just kind of think it's a bit rough at such a young age and hate the school system so don't see why she should have to be knocked by it.

But OP, it’s parents who make decisions like yours that make the system rubbish. By entering your kids, no matter how unsuitable, for the 11+ and then nearly bankrupting yourself to private schools if they don’t pass, you are depriving ‘crap’ schools of fairly able, well adjusted kids. So they are left with less able kids from poorer backgrounds and hence get the reputation for being ‘rubbish’. You’re driving the very system that you decry as unfair.

being at the bottom of grammar is initially crap (my son got in via the reserve list). But after the first term he was fine and started to move up sets (I imagine a load of other kids came from private schools that had spoon fed them more and therefore had covered more of the syllabus at 11+ testing stage). I too hated grammar at first - you go from being in top sets whilst coasting to having to work hard to keep up - but that means you actually do better in long run

@BalancedIndividual

Lol, my parents would not only have told me, but would have told me off and penalised me for failing. Parents these days need to grow a pair.

How awful, I'm so sorry.

I wonder how she'd feel when she eventually found out? I think an outright lie to a child is wrong and damaging. Are you telling her she isn't good enough for you as she is? Horrid idea.

@Wondermule

I just kind of think it's a bit rough at such a young age and hate the school system so don't see why she should have to be knocked by it.

But OP, it’s parents who make decisions like yours that make the system rubbish. By entering your kids, no matter how unsuitable, for the 11+ and then nearly bankrupting yourself to private schools if they don’t pass, you are depriving ‘crap’ schools of fairly able, well adjusted kids. So they are left with less able kids from poorer backgrounds and hence get the reputation for being ‘rubbish’. You’re driving the very system that you decry as unfair.

No it really isn't. It's the government's hideous non-funding of schools.

But regardless, we have options so I'll take them. She's not unsuitable for 11+ just not a certainty.

I'm confident she wouldn't find out. There would be no reason to. And if she did find out one day then I'd explain that I didn't think she should have to feel like a failure when she was little. When she was older she'd understand it wasn't a failure. And would most likely have the benefit of an excellent education to buffer any disappointment. But I do get that most people are saying IABU and I'm not set on this course of action so will give it lots of thought.

I am always inclined to tell the truth.

If you really think it will mess her up more, you could say she passed but not high enough to get into the Grammar? I think a pass is 330 isn't it? But even in-area the cut-off for good schools can be 360+.

We were out of catchment so needed very high marks, but from reading posts in forums I was vaguely aware of the scores needed in catchment too.

I think a pass is 330 isn't it?

That must depends entirely on the area as it’s 303 to get into grammars here.

@Blueappletree

I think the situation is even tougher with her sister at the grammar school if you lie. How do you justify that you think the private is better than grammar? What if the older sibling questioned why they sent her there if parents think the school isn't good enough and private is better?

It's a different grammar school, so we could argue that its a school-based thing based on their personality and abilities.

@Incogweeto grammars don’t get any more funding than their non selective counterparts. They just have brighter kids so it’s easier for them all to keep up and work without distraction.

It’s fine to want the best for your child (don’t we all) but you can’t then complain the system is crap because all the able or wealthy kids are sucked from the non selective state schools, and hence they get worse results.

@Incogweeto

I'm confident she wouldn't find out. There would be no reason to. And if she did find out one day then I'd explain that I didn't think she should have to feel like a failure when she was little. When she was older she'd understand it wasn't a failure. And would most likely have the benefit of an excellent education to buffer any disappointment. But I do get that most people are saying IABU and I'm not set on this course of action so will give it lots of thought.

Please do. 86% of people think lying to her is the wrong thing to do, for a multitude of reasons.

@Incogweeto

Haha, dont be. In hindsight, they only wanted what's best for me and I am glad that I felt pressured to do well. When I got B's and A's, i also used to be chastised, as I should have gotten A*.

And as a kid that didnt have other obligations between age 11 to 16, nor had to worry about basic needs (e.g. food and clothes), there was no excuse for not achieving those goals.

And looking back, the pressure of studying was/is nothing compared to the pressures and challenges that adult life can throw at you.

And if she did find out one day then I'd explain that I didn't think she should have to feel like a failure when she was little. When she was older she'd understand it wasn't a failure.

I get where you're coming from OP, but I think that children are never too young to understand that a test result isn't a reflection on them and their worth as an individual. This is our job, as parents, to make sure that they understand that and have the resilience to deal with set-backs when they happen.

I was bright as a kid - always top of the class, off doing my own work ahead of the rest of the class throughout primary, then top sets all through secondary. I was not prepared in any way for university by this. I wasn't given the opportunity to not be good at something and learn how to handle that. Christ, I cried when I didn't get into one of my postgrad options because I had never experienced an outright rejection related to my academic work before, and this was as an adult!

You have a golden opportunity here to help your daughter develop that understanding while it's still low-stakes and you have the means to cushion the blow how you see fit. Telling her she passed but she's not going to go to her preferred school isn't the way to do that.

We keep the 11+ chat very low key. As I said, no tutoring, bit of practice and no reward (or punishment - jeez!) for the score. We gave my eldest a little treat for taking the exam (so straight after - not when scores come out some weeks later).

I would never have got away with not sharing score with my eldest, as she's very confident and academic and simply asked to know her score, and was well aware of what she needed. So I expect it will be the same here, not just that I can't mention it.

DD2 knows that DD1 is crazily academic and I spend a lot of time telling her the skills she has the DD1 doesn't have (she's far more empathetic and kind - not that I say that directly, but she is far better with people than my wonderful elbows-out DD1) But... DD2 is ME as a child. I just see it and I know that internally, if she doesn't get the score, she will be completely crushed and feel bad about herself forever.

(Probably doesn't help that my mum still boasts about her 11+ score even though it was in a different country, everyone took 11+ then and it didn't really mean anything!)

@Incogweeto "shouldn't have to feel like a failure"... But should she feel like the other kids are, and that she's somehow superior?
Glad you will give it thought.

[quote Wondermule]@Incogweeto grammars don’t get any more funding than their non selective counterparts. They just have brighter kids so it’s easier for them all to keep up and work without distraction.

It’s fine to want the best for your child (don’t we all) but you can’t then complain the system is crap because all the able or wealthy kids are sucked from the non selective state schools, and hence they get worse results.[/quote]
They absolutely do get more funding in our area due to how it's set up.

It's not really about the results in the other schools. There are massive problems with behaviour and bullying. DD2 is bright enough and supported enough that she'd get decent results wherever, but I want her to be happy.

[quote bourbonne]@Incogweeto "shouldn't have to feel like a failure"... But should she feel like the other kids are, and that she's somehow superior?
Glad you will give it thought.[/quote]
Well firstly, she won't because she's really lovely, and not a dick at all.

But secondly, only one other kid in her year will do 11+ so it's a non issue.