To think Harry threw Meghan to the lions

[Arielsvoice]

OK apologies its another thread on this but hear me out

So I've watched the interview and I think Harry actually comes off looking much worse and that Meghan is actually suffering because he's a pretty shit partner.

On watching it and if you take what she says at face value:

Why didn't he tell her what it was all about given that she said she didn't know anything about the royals?

Why didn't he warn her what happened to his mother if she was that unaware?

Why didn't he arrange mental health support given he's had a therapist on speed dial for years?

Why didn't he stand up against Kate if she made Meghan cry?

Why have another child if he knows that there won't be any security for Archie?

Why not sort out a realistic plan to support himself before leaving rather than making knee jerk reactions which put his wife and child at risk?

So many questions that actually make Harry look like a pretty shit husband. To me he seems to be the one that is responsible for putting Meghan into the situation she's in now and then to make himself look better throws his family under the bus rather than take responsibility.

YANBU - Harry needs to take some responsibility for Meghan's experiences

YABU - he is not to blame for what happened to her.

I find it difficult to believe that an experienced actress who ran a particularly active website and an Instagram page, who moved to the UK and asked several people to set her up with a British boyfriend, didn't google Prince Harry or the Royal Family.

I can easily understand that someone from the US, where class works very differently, wouldn’t know you have to curtsey to HM when you’re being introduced as her grandson’s girlfriend in a private setting.

Also, given the incorrect views that are given every day on this site about how royal descent and titles work, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if M didn’t understand that Archie wouldn’t be a prince if his cousins were. Would she necessarily understand that George and his two little siblings are effectively prince/princess only by courtesy because of specific letters patent granted by HM? Or that Anne and Edward declined royal titles for their children while Andrew insisted on them?

It can’t be much fun to be Harry at this point. He regards the British press as responsible for his mother’s death, with good reason. He wanted to be a soldier and couldn’t keep on being one because of the press and his “duty”.

He’s always been told that his duty required him to do this and that, two long term relationships broke down because of his position, he’s had to ignore decades of hurtful speculation about his paternity, he supports his brother and sister-in-law, and then he gets to his mid 30s and finally finds someone to marry and is told take your time, and by the way you are now far down the succession and your family will be “trimmed”.

He doesn’t seem to be super bright or to have many internal resources, so I would expect this was a shock.

If it’s true that HM was advised not to meet him before a decision was made, that William won’t speak to him and that Charles won’t take his calls, it’s hardly surprising that he’s behaving like someone who has been deeply wounded.

The wider family has absolutely been racist and disrespectful, and the press called his baby a chimpanzee. I’d be off overseas too.

They'll be fine, lots of positive responses from America.
I'm glad to got a chance to defend the continuous accusations and I've little doubt Meghan's skin colour wasn't mentioned when they start dating.
The RF went from woke to wicked.
I'd think there was a few unsavoury conversations behind Harry's back.

@Gremlinsateit Agreed.
How come Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie have titles? If they're cousins?

[quote Emeraldshamrock]@Gremlinsateit Agreed.
How come Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie have titles? If they're cousins?[/quote]
They’re grandchildren of the monarch on the male line.

Grandchildren of the monarch on the male line are entitled to be HRH Prince/ss - so of the Queen's grandchildren it's William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise and James (though the latter two have them, as confirmed by their mother, but don't use them).

Peter and Zara are not entitled because they aren't from the male line.

When George was born he was entitled to HRH Prince due to being the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. By the 1917 Letter's Patent only he would be. Charlotte, Louis, Archie and Archie's sibling would be Lord/Lady Windsor and would be "upgraded" to HRH Prince/ss when Charles becomes King. The Queen issued special LP's stating all of William's children would have the title from birth. Clearly Meghan and Harry assumed this was going to apply to all of Charles' grandchildren.

I don't understand why Meghan thought Archie would get a title. Surely he won't get one until HM The Queen dies, as only the children of the male successors of the reigning monarch are entitled to automatically get them - anything else is at The Queen's discretion? hence you have Prince William and Harry, Princess Eugenie and Beatrice. Edwards kids have them but don't use them - they chose not to, and Anne's kids she refused to burden them>

However all will change when Charlie becomes king. Will they refuse Archie's and unborn's titles that are automatically conferred as children of the sons of the reigning monarch? I think not.

Not sure what to make of Harry in all this. The whole thing is odd. Meghan didn't seem to have a clue about Royal life. That must be partly his fault, I'm sure he's sorry now!

@Ariela

I don't understand why Meghan thought Archie would get a title. Surely he won't get one until HM The Queen dies, as only the children of the male successors of the reigning monarch are entitled to automatically get them - anything else is at The Queen's discretion? hence you have Prince William and Harry, Princess Eugenie and Beatrice. Edwards kids have them but don't use them - they chose not to, and Anne's kids she refused to burden them>

However all will change when Charlie becomes king. Will they refuse Archie's and unborn's titles that are automatically conferred as children of the sons of the reigning monarch? I think not.

It seems from the interview that originally Harry and Meghan thought all the grandchildren of Charles were going to be treated in the same way and that Archie would be “upgraded” early like Charlotte and Louis.

However, she said they were also told that changes were going to be made so he doesn’t become titled when Charles becomes King either.

I believe Anne’s children weren’t entitled because woman , and Anne was offered a grant of titles for Peter and Zara but declined them. Ghastly Andrew is effectively in the same position as Harry one generation up, and his daughters were entitled and he did accept them. I thought Edward declined but happy to be corrected by JustLyra.

When HM dies everyone moves up one, so Archie would ordinarily then have been the equivalent of Beatrice and Eugenie, I think, as the child of the monarch’s second son - but not now.

Btw I don’t think Harry is a great guy but I do feel sorry for him, and if he is working to overcome his earlier racism then good on him.

Well to be fair Harry and his two low A levels (with the best education money could possibly buy). Wasn't possibly the best authority to explain anything well to anyone? (including Meghan). But then again it's not like Meghan was 18, without a strong background of various education, life experience, and an at least rudimentary knowledge of the Internet to know who Harry is? (it's not like he was a runner on Suit's). Soooo... Potentially as much as they're poorly suited, they're maybe more so than on face value believed?

However, she said they were also told that changes were going to be made so he doesn’t become titled when Charles becomes King either.
Did she actually say that though ?

I have been thinking two things lately:

Many commentators be it in the press, tv, social media and indeed here, say the monarchy is outdated, no one believed in it etc yet
I've just read there has been something like 50 million viewers worldwide who watched.

I can get behind the idea possibly people are watching for the monarchy to fall but really? That many people tuned in for something they don't care about? Are that invested in one couple? I think it shows the pull and fascination of the royal family as wouldn't have the same appeal I don't believe if it was 'couple expose ordinary family or even famous of some kind family'

Secondly, the picture painted was of a racist, cold, trapped family/situation that drove her to suicidal thoughts but yet they want to retain the links - the titles, the royal patronage for their foundation, the coming back to support the Queen and financial support. It has been asked by some but swept under the table somewhat - if you look back over the initial intentions in their announcement and subsequently to this point - it was step down/back not away.

The narrative has changed.

I think lots they said has an element of truth in it and I don't intend to question the validity of how someone says they feel about depression/suicide and racism but I also am left scratching my head. I think that's valid and it isn't just a choice between being just on their side or just on the RF's side but being both or neither or able to switch from side to side.

It's started an interesting conversation and hopefully movement about the media and bullying and continued it on racism which is needed. But let's not get stuck in rabbit holes where we hitch this story to a narrative that suits a different agenda.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

However, she said they were also told that changes were going to be made so he doesn’t become titled when Charles becomes King either. Did she actually say that though ?

Yes, she said that.

I really don't understand the mental health aspect. She was suicidal, told her husband, and then went and asked the HR department at the Palace for help ? And they declined to help because she wasn't an employee ?? Harry has been getting mental health treatment for years - surely as a caring husband he'd immediately call his therapist and organise some help for her ? The idea that she'd have to approach the HR department seems unbelievable .

She said Harry was out all day working and she was left home breastfeeding. But what on Earth was Harry doing? The occasional visit? I think she said he was out in the middle of the night. Is he a spy? Or doing a Tesco night shift?

He does sound like the stereotypical bad new dad but it doesn’t add up because he had no job. Also, of course, if feeling a bit weepy or needing things done, she had household staff and nannies.

@Jbon9087

I don't think ANY of us could be prepared enough for what came her way and we are born and bred here and saw the Diana story play out. Let alone an American with their arms length coverage of the UK.

Unless you've seen American TV you wouldn't believe how little coverage they have of anything outside of the US. So if people here think they think about the RF maybe 5% that's like 4% too much!

I think he saw her a TV person so used to cameras, which she was, and they both thought about it from the perspective of being ok with having cameras chucked in your face. Which she was.

What she wasn't prepared for was the stalking from Piers Morgan and the DM and the racist attacks from everyone incl the BBC who called her baby a monkey.

As he admits he never thought about / couldn't see the racism until it hit him through her and by then it was too late. Even his mother didn't go through that!

Remember the British media have done a great job of making us think they've learned from Diana. Then when M came along we saw just how racist, rancid and corrupt they are when the gloves off. Again.

Exactly. When will it stop? Who the hell is reading these racist, misogynistic "newspapers" full of lies? It's really very baffling.

I am wondering if I am the only person not to have seen this interview. HM. Maybe I have better things to do for two hours..

What a bile way to talk about someone who has said they’re suicidal. Think of the other mothers who have PND and suicidal thoughts. Reported.

I’m sure Meghan liked the idea of marrying a prince, becoming a princess (duchess), the fame, the jewels, the carriages etc.

When the dreams became reality and she had to follow a lot of rules I’m pretty sure she was looking for an escape button.

If she divorces Harry he’s going to be even more red faced than usual.

This thread is actually quite upsetting to read. The two of them spoke quite genuinely and openly about how the past few years have been for them including Meghan saying how lonely it was, she got to the point where she didn't want to be alive anymore and was having serious thoughts about suicide, the powers that be at the palace telling her it wouldn't look good if she checked into a hospital to get the help she needed, and all the rest of it, and I've just read through pages of them being torn apart.

She's conniving, she's acting, she's a delusional narcissist, she's been round the block a few times, she must have known what it would be like, Harry is thick as mince, a coward, basic cannon fodder material.
Oh and Meghan, despite being suicidal, should be fine as she can just ask staff to help out if she's feeling 'a bit weepy'.

Sheer unrelenting nastiness. No wonder they felt desperate.

So now they have had their say we won't hear a rehash of the same thing over more interviews, opinion pieces etc or slow release of more revelations right?

What are our thoughts if that does happen?

Would that be ok with some posters? If so for what end?

@Aspiringmatriarch I agree.

This thread and all the others just demonstrate how sexist and horrible women can be about other women.

Again and again we see the trope that this is all Meghan’s doing, she’s conniving, sly, Harry was fine until she came along, etc etc.

She may not be a nice person, I have no idea, but neither does anyone on mumsnet or any of our shitty press. But still the harmful stereotype of a bitchy woman is pushed on her.

And those who dismissed her depression and suicidal thoughts... really?! Come on. We live in a day and age where we’re all educated enough about depression to understand it’s not just “feeling weepy” and maybe she couldn’t “just call someone”. That’s not how depression works. And even if she is a liar like everyone loves to claim, that doesn’t mean that another woman with depression didn’t just read those nasty posts and now feels even worse about how she’s struggling herself. Don’t dismiss mental illnesses.

I also firmly believe that from day one there’s been an undercurrent of racism from the British towards her. Press and public. Plenty of women used to fawn over Harry for some odd reason and as soon as he started dating Meghan there was a lot of the old “can’t put my finger on why, but I just don’t like her”.

She has the nerve to be not white or British, and an outspoken woman. That’s why she’s had shit from the start.