AIBU to say ‘no vaccine, no seeing grandchildren’ to my anti vaccine in laws?

[Hfjshdhs]

Name changed because I’m sure that IABU and I’m a bit scared of the fallout!

My PIL are anti vaccine, conspiracy theorists (don’t think Covid exists). They are refusing to get the vaccine.

I have a 3 year old and 5 month old. The 3 year old goes to nursery, but other than that we are incredibly careful and follow all rules. My 5 month old hasn’t met anyone because we are staying safe. None of us are CEV, but equally we have friends who are healthy, have had covid, and had a really awful time of it. So we really don’t want Covid in the house.

AIBU to say to my in laws that if they don’t have the vaccine, I won’t see them, and they won’t be seeing the grandchildren? Or is that a really shitty thing to do?

For context, I have never got on with them. They are extremely controlling. My husband has a very poor relationship with them. But our daughter loves her grandparents so we make sure they have a good relationship. My PIL are both still working, in offices, so exposed every day. If I see my PIL I don’t think I could see my own parents in the following two weeks because they are vulnerable (though have been vaccinated).

@Druidlookingidiot

If you had all the standard vaccines, there is absolutely no reason to not have the Covid one. The only thing stopping people is pure ignorance. Educate yourself FFS.

This. ^

What makes me roll my eyes, is the conspiracy theory that there is a 'chip' in the vaccination needle. So suddenly, we are all being chipped are we? Why? To what end?

Also, what about when you have the flu jab, or a jab to go to areas outside Europe and America? For Tetanus, hepatitis, rabies, yellow fever, diphtheria, typhoid etc? Or what about when the DENTIST gives you an injection when you're having a filling? How do you know you aren't getting a 'chip' inserted then? Maybe the 'chip' is inserted when you have your MMR. Everyone under 30 is probably already chipped.

Oooh, then there's the HPV vaccine for girls, introduced some 12-13 years ago. If they weren't chipped with the MMR jab, they probably chipped them then! Maybe the were chipped at birth with the 'heel prick test!'

Mad as a box of frogs, the covid deniers are. As I said, how do you know you are not already 'chipped?!' And as has been said, it's ridiculous and hilarious that they probably acknowledge and believe in flu, tuberculosis, cholera, rabies, typhoid, and all manner of diseases, but think covid19 is a HUGE government conspiracy. The 120,000 deaths are not enough proof Covid19 exists it seems.

You can't fix stupid.

@GoldSlipper

One thing that annoys me about this entire debate is so many people labelling those not wishing to have the vaccination of being "anti-vaxxers".

Every single person I know who is choosing not to have the Covid jab (as in indeed their right) has had ALL of their standard vaccinations and, if they could time travel, would have them again. Why don't people seem to understand that they are therefore not "anti-vaxxers"?

As a pp said, how peculiar that you know soooo many people who are choosing to not have the covid vaccine.

I don't know anyone who is refusing to have the vaccine, except my friend's nan. (And I don't actually know the nan, I have only met her once!)

Then again, the people I tend to hang around with/have in my life are intelligent, sensible, well-educated people.

I’m not anti vaccine. I’m anti compulsory vaccination hmm Despite what some MNers seem to think, there is a difference

Since there is no such thing as compulsory vaccine in the UK, will you go away then?

YANBU

Nurseries are terrible for spreading the virus, terrible places
Protect your ils.

Gosh I'm glad my dil and son aren't as ridiculous, not having mine either, but can't see as much of the one that attends nursery, for obvious reasons.

My Mum has had the vaccine, my Dad has declined it. Not in a million years would I refuse him to see his Grandchildren. I don’t quite believe what I’m reading here. The world has gone mad...

[quote littlepattilou]@Druidlookingidiot

If you had all the standard vaccines, there is absolutely no reason to not have the Covid one. The only thing stopping people is pure ignorance. Educate yourself FFS.

This. ^

What makes me roll my eyes, is the conspiracy theory that there is a 'chip' in the vaccination needle. So suddenly, we are all being chipped are we? Why? To what end?

Also, what about when you have the flu jab, or a jab to go to areas outside Europe and America? For Tetanus, hepatitis, rabies, yellow fever, diphtheria, typhoid etc? Or what about when the DENTIST gives you an injection when you're having a filling? How do you know you aren't getting a 'chip' inserted then? Maybe the 'chip' is inserted when you have your MMR. Everyone under 30 is probably already chipped.

Oooh, then there's the HPV vaccine for girls, introduced some 12-13 years ago. If they weren't chipped with the MMR jab, they probably chipped them then! Maybe the were chipped at birth with the 'heel prick test!'

Mad as a box of frogs, the covid deniers are. As I said, how do you know you are not already 'chipped?!' And as has been said, it's ridiculous and hilarious that they probably acknowledge and believe in flu, tuberculosis, cholera, rabies, typhoid, and all manner of diseases, but think covid19 is a HUGE government conspiracy. The 120,000 deaths are not enough proof Covid19 exists it seems.

You can't fix stupid.[/quote]
Wtf is wrong with you? Who said anything about microchips?

I just don’t want the COVID shot. End of.

I’ve happily got a rabies shot series and the Japanese encephalitis shot when I moved to a developing country, because I felt they were warranted.

I don’t feel at risk with COVID. I’m young, not obese and have no underlying health conditions and do not live with elderly family members. I don’t work with vulnerable populations.

So there’s no reason for me to have it unless otherwise required by law.

Forget COVID, I wouldn't want to expose my children to anti-vaxxer idiots.

Lol, your child is in nurserybut you won't let grandparents see them unless they get a vaccine.

Fucking hell, that's ridiculous.

Unfortunately, if you get the disease you will be infectious, and may before you have any symptoms give it to someone else who has not had the jab because their medical condition means they cannot have it. Oh, and it may also kill you: even the comparatively young and healthy do die of SARS-CoV-2 sometimes: not as high a proportion of that population as of the elderly and obese with existing heart conditions, but enough to be a bit sad for their friends and relations.

So long as you don't feel that causing someone else's death might be a tad selfish, you'll be fine. Unless you die, of course; but if you do that then you'll be fine as well, won't have to worry about a thing.

@UsedUpUsername Did I direct my post at you?!

NO!

So calm down FFS!

@UsedUpUsername And it's lovely that you are young and healthy, and 'not obese' and 'not a covid risk'. Shame some people you will be mixing with may NOT be.

'Selfish' does not even begin to cover it. The phrases 'I'm all right jack' springs to mind!

Oh and good luck having a life! There will be SO many things you can't do if you haven't had the vaccine. So your young, healthy, non-obese life is going to be VERY limited.

Have a nice (half) life! You and the others who are refusing the vaccine!

[quote littlepattilou]@UsedUpUsername And it's lovely that you are young and healthy, and 'not obese' and 'not a covid risk'. Shame some people you will be mixing with may NOT be.

'Selfish' does not even begin to cover it. The phrases 'I'm all right jack' springs to mind!

Oh and good luck having a life! There will be SO many things you can't do if you haven't had the vaccine. So your young, healthy, non-obese life is going to be VERY limited.

Have a nice (half) life! You and the others who are refusing the vaccine![/quote]
You have said this several times now. So, how will the lives of unvaccinated people be limited, and where is your proof that this will happen?

And the people that she’s mixing with aren’t vaccinated? So they could be spreading the virus too?

[quote littlepattilou]@UsedUpUsername And it's lovely that you are young and healthy, and 'not obese' and 'not a covid risk'. Shame some people you will be mixing with may NOT be.

'Selfish' does not even begin to cover it. The phrases 'I'm all right jack' springs to mind!

Oh and good luck having a life! There will be SO many things you can't do if you haven't had the vaccine. So your young, healthy, non-obese life is going to be VERY limited.

Have a nice (half) life! You and the others who are refusing the vaccine![/quote]
For starters, those vulnerable will have the vaccine.

Second, asymptomatic spread may not be a thing:
www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

Third, if I have a cold or a nasty cough, I’ll do the right thing by staying home or even wearing a mask. You know, things that are actually known to spread disease ....

And if (big IF) vaccines become required for certain things, I’ll roll up my sleeve to do it. Not because I think it’s necessary though. I’d prefer to wait for my COVID shot when I’m fat, old or have a diagnosed condition.

Littlepattilou - you are suggesting that individuals who would be more at risk from the vaccine (since it is not risk free) than from covid itself (because they happen to be extremely low risk) should get the jab to protect others?
Tbh it's a defendable view point but then it shouldn't stop there surely. Should we be forced to give blood even if we don't want? Share our incomes more fully? Share our homes? Stop eating food that could be allergens for others when out and about (not just in a plane for instance)? Quarantine ourselves when we have a small cold? There needs to be a balance here.
My view is that vaccines shouldn't be mandatory. We can achieve suitable herd immunity and adequately protect the more vulnerable without forcing people to have vaccines they do not think they need.

Of course there may be situations where making the vaccine mandatory will be justified but we're not there yet and until we get there then I plan to make the right decision for me.

YABU the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, or transmitting it, just means you won’t be as ill and end up in hospital. So really whether they have it or not will not affect you.

Studies show that yes the vaccine can stop you from getting it and transmitting it. Do keep up.

I’d prefer to wait for my COVID shot when I’m fat, old or have a diagnosed condition.

Why though? I genuinely want to know why you won't take it up, when having a Covid vaccine means you get to help protect those around you from a potentially big risk and protect yourself from a very small risk, by taking a much, much smaller risk. And it costs you maybe an hour of your time and a couple of days of feeling below par.

@OhWhyNot

Your children are going to come into contact with a number of people who haven’t been vaccinated

It’s a ridiculous excuse

That's no reason not to minimize the amount of close, sustained contact with people who haven't been vaccinated. Also, since they think the virus is a hoax it's reasonable to assume that they are doing nothing to limit their exposure to it.

OP, you are not being unreasonable.

Really practical problem with this - won’t they maybe simply say they rethought and have had it (when maybe they’ve done nothing of the sort?). Short of demanding to see their COVID passport (if these come in) I’m not sure how practical your boycott will be.

I agree with you btw. Sick and tired of anti vaccine tossers - obviously not those who cannot have it !
Kind of think someone so dim would also be quite happy lying to you.
Good luck - difficult.
Luckily I have family and friends who without exception amongst those of us who can have it, feel honoured and relieved about it - just got my ‘call up papers’ - made me feel positively humbled to be here where we’ve sorted this so well and the nhs and army have been so incredibly great sorting it out !
Don’t feel so positive about the shitshow that is other aspects of our government who have made fatal and self serving mistakes.
Good luck op.

Mad as a box of frogs, the covid deniers are

I think it's hilarious that they think the world staged a 'plandemic' just to piss a few conspiracy theorists off🤣😆🙄. Well, it could be hilarious if their theories weren't so dangerous.

I don’t feel at risk with COVID. I’m young, not obese and have no underlying health conditions and do not live with elderly family members. I don’t work with vulnerable populations

So there’s no reason for me to have it unless otherwise required by law

That's the spirit, save yourself and don't give anyone else a thought.

Littlepattilou - you are suggesting that individuals who would be more at risk from the vaccine (since it is not risk free) than from covid itself (because they happen to be extremely low risk) should get the jab to protect others?
Tbh it's a defendable view point but then it shouldn't stop there surely. Should we be forced to give blood even if we don't want? Share our incomes more fully? Share our homes? Stop eating food that could be allergens for others when out and about (not just in a plane for instance)? Quarantine ourselves when we have a small cold? There needs to be a balance here
My view is that vaccines shouldn't be mandatory. We can achieve suitable herd immunity and adequately protect the more vulnerable without forcing people to have vaccines they do not think they need
Of course there may be situations where making the vaccine mandatory will be justified but we're not there yet and until we get there then I plan to make the right decision for me

That comment is nothing more than gish galloping effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/

You wrote this: "I know that we are at risk with my DD at nursery, but for me the benefit of her being there (it’s her education, her time to make friends and socialise) outweighs the risk. She’s in a very small bubble. At the same time, I don’t want to invite more risk into my life than I have to."

By the same reasoning, the benefit of you DD having a good relationship with her grandparents, who she likes, would outweigh the risk (which really is very small given your DP are vaccinated, you will/have been, and your DD is at the low risk category). So really this is an outright excuse. You should not pressure people into making medical choices (when in reality, you just dont like them and are using this as an excuse). If you dont want to see them, just dont, and be honest. But dont give this silly reason. Imagine if they got a vaccine because they wanted to see their grandchild and you were saying they have to be vaccinated to do so. Then they had a side effect. How would you or your DH feel?

Cuppachino - I hope everything you do is dictated primarily by the greater good over your own personal interest.

I won't apologise for focusing on what is best for me and my family. That is indeed what I plan on doing as a general rule. I do a lot of altruistic 'deeds', I donate, I volunteer, I take into account people's feelings, I help and support others.
But yes I will draw the line at having medical procedures done if I consider them to have more risks than benefits for me especially when the overall impact on others is likely minimal. Absolutely fine if you think that's selfish. Tbh we live in an inherently selfish world.

You may not be at risk of dying if you’re young and healthy, not obese, and without underlying health conditions (or at least the risk is minuscule). But young and healthy people are developing long Covid, which they’re still struggling with a year later. Some can’t go back to work. (I have long Covid, but I’m 51 and obese so I don’t fit that description sadly.)

Yes, the risk is still low, but it is sadly more common than some people want to believe. And there’s no way to know in advance whether you’re at risk of long Covid. It’s certainly a good reason not to refuse the vaccine IMO!