AIBU to say ‘no vaccine, no seeing grandchildren’ to my anti vaccine in laws?

[Hfjshdhs]

Name changed because I’m sure that IABU and I’m a bit scared of the fallout!

My PIL are anti vaccine, conspiracy theorists (don’t think Covid exists). They are refusing to get the vaccine.

I have a 3 year old and 5 month old. The 3 year old goes to nursery, but other than that we are incredibly careful and follow all rules. My 5 month old hasn’t met anyone because we are staying safe. None of us are CEV, but equally we have friends who are healthy, have had covid, and had a really awful time of it. So we really don’t want Covid in the house.

AIBU to say to my in laws that if they don’t have the vaccine, I won’t see them, and they won’t be seeing the grandchildren? Or is that a really shitty thing to do?

For context, I have never got on with them. They are extremely controlling. My husband has a very poor relationship with them. But our daughter loves her grandparents so we make sure they have a good relationship. My PIL are both still working, in offices, so exposed every day. If I see my PIL I don’t think I could see my own parents in the following two weeks because they are vulnerable (though have been vaccinated).

But yes I will draw the line at having medical procedures done

We've been vaccinating since the 1940s. Vaccination is the public health intervention that has saved and improved more lives than anything else.

In the UK we have a phenomenally successful wide ranging vaccination programme, which is built upon years of research. Vaccination world wide is also extremely successful and well researched. The Covid vaccines haven't suddenly appeared. The vaccines are the result of years of research and trials.

Have you and your children had any of the other vaccinations?

@Druidlookingidiot

But yes I will draw the line at having medical procedures done

We've been vaccinating since the 1940s. Vaccination is the public health intervention that has saved and improved more lives than anything else.

In the UK we have a phenomenally successful wide ranging vaccination programme, which is built upon years of research. Vaccination world wide is also extremely successful and well researched. The Covid vaccines haven't suddenly appeared. The vaccines are the result of years of research and trials.

Have you and your children had any of the other vaccinations?

I have had all the vaccinations I deemed suitable for myself and same for my children. Tbh I haven't decided re covid but it's very short sighted to consider vaccines as one bulk. Each and every vaccine justifies a different risk/benefit assessment. And indeed the NHS doesn't recommend every vaccine and different countries (sometimes with similar risk set up) will have different policies.

@Mittens030869

You may not be at risk of dying if you’re young and healthy, not obese, and without underlying health conditions (or at least the risk is minuscule). But young and healthy people are developing long Covid, which they’re still struggling with a year later. Some can’t go back to work. (I have long Covid, but I’m 51 and obese so I don’t fit that description sadly.)

Yes, the risk is still low, but it is sadly more common than some people want to believe. And there’s no way to know in advance whether you’re at risk of long Covid. It’s certainly a good reason not to refuse the vaccine IMO!

What if the risk of having a serious adverse reaction from the vaccine is higher than the risk of developing a serious condition from covid? That's the risk assessment people are referring to here and it will depend on personal factors.

I find the idea that something which amounts at most to a couple of days of a fairly low fever and nausea, and may well have no ill effects at all is somehow worse than something which may amount to a few weeks of serious illness with possible after-effects lasting months (nobody knows how long it takes for long covid to end; one in ten who test positive for covid take twelve weeks or more to recover) and at best no effects apart from spreading it to anyone you are in contact with who has not been vaccinated to be a weird idea of "best for me and my family".

I think it both selfish and essentially silly.

@Motherchicken

YABU the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, or transmitting it, just means you won’t be as ill and end up in hospital. So really whether they have it or not will not affect you.

Please don't spread these false statements. If you are going to post then make sure you are giving accurate information.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

I find the idea that something which amounts at most to a couple of days of a fairly low fever and nausea, and may well have no ill effects at all is somehow worse than something which may amount to a few weeks of serious illness with possible after-effects lasting months (nobody knows how long it takes for long covid to end; one in ten who test positive for covid take twelve weeks or more to recover) and at best no effects apart from spreading it to anyone you are in contact with who has not been vaccinated to be a weird idea of "best for me and my family".

I think it both selfish and essentially silly.

Maybe you are not fully aware as to how bad side effects and adverse reactions to vaccines can be? Whilst rare it can happen. If you think that vaccines are such innocuous substances / only have benefits / can only ever have mild side effects then yes I understand your position. If I believed this too then I'd share your view.

If they were hesitant about the vaccine, but were otherwise living quite a cautious life then I'd have said YABU, but they're covid denying anti-vaxxers and their actions put your family at risk so YANBU.

@LolaSmiles

If they were hesitant about the vaccine, but were otherwise living quite a cautious life then I'd have said YABU, but they're covid denying anti-vaxxers and their actions put your family at risk so YANBU.

How are they putting them at any more risk than their child attending nursery is?

If you think that vaccines are such innocuous substances / only have benefits / can only ever have mild side effects then yes I understand your position. If I believed this too then I'd share your view

The more you post, the clearer it's becoming that you're just a rabid anti-vaxxer, nothing more.

How are they putting them at any more risk than their child attending nursery is?
Nothing in life is risk free, especially at the moment.

If the OP and her family need childcare then they need childcare and that's one risk.

Mixing with covid denying antivaxxers is a bigger risk because people who deny covid aren't going to be taking appropriate precautions in their own lives. After all, why would you take precautions for something that is apparently a big hoax?

The 'if they go to nursery then what's the added risk' is the same sort of argument I've seen on other threads like 'if the children are all back at school then what's the risk if I go round and have drinks with my friends'. Each set of mixing is a risk. Idiots who think covid is a hoax are probably a bigger risk than anything else.

How are they putting them at any more risk than their child attending nursery is?

Because we're all still supposed to be limiting our contacts still. Even seeing one more person adds to your risk. FFS, how can people STILL not know this? It's absolutely shocking that people don't know the basics of safety in a pandemic. OP has decided that the ONLY risk worth taking just now is her DC attending nursery. Same as I will only take the risk of my DC attending school. I'm not mixing with other households yet, therefore limiting my risks.

I say yabu because you are using this vaccine shit to get the outcome you want, instead of just standing up and saying you want no more contact with them.

Its their choice whether they want the vaccine or not. Its your choice if you don't want contact.
Its manipulation to claim "if you don't get the vaccine then you don't see your GC" and it's a pretty shitty thing to do. The fact you're letting your child attend nursery shows that you're not overly concerned about the risks to the point of refusing contact with GP.

@Cuppachino

If you think that vaccines are such innocuous substances / only have benefits / can only ever have mild side effects then yes I understand your position. If I believed this too then I'd share your view

The more you post, the clearer it's becoming that you're just a rabid anti-vaxxer, nothing more.

I've been nothing but polite here. You are just plain rude and a pretty nasty person. I think even without taking the covid vaccine my positive impact on the world will far outweigh yours.

Fwiw I've taken all the vaccines I considered suitable. When I travelled abroad I took the suggested vaccines. When I moved to the UK I took the recommended vaccines and my children have had the recommended vaccines too. It doesn't mean I cannot think for myself and decide whether or not the covid one is right for me.

As a child I nearly died as a result to a childhood vaccine (no real explanation but it was clearly linked to the vaccine by the medical professionals at the time). My mother has suffered from leg pain all her life because of a vaccine (against fully recognised by doctors as being the cause). I'm not saying vaccines are bad or that adverse reactions are frequent. Vaccines are a good thing globally and adverse reactions are rare but they exist and should be taken into account.

Its their choice whether they want the vaccine or not. Its your choice if you don't want contact
Its manipulation to claim "if you don't get the vaccine then you don't see your GC" and it's a pretty shitty thing to do*

Why is it only the OPs choice that is "manipulation" and "a shitty thing to do"? If my parents refused the vaccine and then started moaning and trying to make me feel bad about THEIR CHOICE, I'd see that as manipulation and a shitty thing to do to ME.

It seems this thread is just full of anti vaxxers who refuse to see both sides here. The covid denying, conspiracy theorist anti vaxxer in laws should be obeyed and pandered to without question it seems. Utterly bonkers.

oblada

oblada As predicted, you're true colours and intentions are becoming clearer with every post. Oh and I don't believe a word of your 'scenarios' about vaccines and their effects on you and family members.

I've had many a debate with anti-vaxxers and the pattern and change of tone of your comments is textbook. Your post are full of contradictions, full of useless 'other' information to distract and not a shred of proof or evidence to back up your claims. The anger is coming now when you're 'challenged'.

@Druidlookingidiot

no one has to get the vaccine. It may well reduce transmission, but noone is obligated to inject their body for the benefit of others

Studies show it does reduce transmission. We are all obligated, in many ways, when we live in a world populated by others. The selfish attitude about obligations to others, is scary.

No. I vehemently disagree. Noone is obligated to be vaccinated for the benefit of others. I say this as someone who has been shielding for the best part of a year. Noone else has to protect me. I wouldn't put others at unnecessary risk, but ultimately protecting themselves is their job!

@Cuppachino

oblada

oblada As predicted, you're true colours and intentions are becoming clearer with every post. Oh and I don't believe a word of your 'scenarios' about vaccines and their effects on you and family members.

I've had many a debate with anti-vaxxers and the pattern and change of tone of your comments is textbook. Your post are full of contradictions, full of useless 'other' information to distract and not a shred of proof or evidence to back up your claims. The anger is coming now when you're 'challenged'.

You seem a bit unhinged. Nothing I've said is contradictory, I've not made a 'case' against covid vaccine, just outlined that people should assess their risk/benefits. End of. I'm annoyed at you being rude when ive been nothing but polite here. I can't stand rude people.

@Cuppachino

Its their choice whether they want the vaccine or not. Its your choice if you don't want contact Its manipulation to claim "if you don't get the vaccine then you don't see your GC" and it's a pretty shitty thing to do*

Why is it only the OPs choice that is "manipulation" and "a shitty thing to do"? If my parents refused the vaccine and then started moaning and trying to make me feel bad about THEIR CHOICE, I'd see that as manipulation and a shitty thing to do to ME.

It seems this thread is just full of anti vaxxers who refuse to see both sides here. The covid denying, conspiracy theorist anti vaxxer in laws should be obeyed and pandered to without question it seems. Utterly bonkers.

I cant see anywhere where the OP mentions that her inlaws are moaning and trying to make her feel bad about their choice?

My point is - if OP doesn't want a relationship with her inlaws, then be brave enough to do that instead of using this vaccine as the reason for it.

But it isn’t just about the vaccine anyway. It’s about the Covid denying conspiracy theories. I wouldn’t want my DDs around that either. It’s possible to be unsure about the vaccine without being a conspiracy believing Covid denier, as can be seen on this thread.

@Cuppachino

How are they putting them at any more risk than their child attending nursery is?

Because we're all still supposed to be limiting our contacts still. Even seeing one more person adds to your risk. FFS, how can people STILL not know this? It's absolutely shocking that people don't know the basics of safety in a pandemic. OP has decided that the ONLY risk worth taking just now is her DC attending nursery. Same as I will only take the risk of my DC attending school. I'm not mixing with other households yet, therefore limiting my risks.

This isn’t about minimising contacts while restrictions are in place though, it’s about stopping grandparents from seeing their grandchildren for the foreseeable future if they haven’t been vaccinated. The OP has a problem with her PILs not being vaccinated but is not concerned about her child being in nursery with other unvaccinated children and nursery workers when she doesn’t know if their parents/grandparents/any other contacts have been vaccinated. It’s just a bit silly really. It seems more about control because she doesn’t like her in laws than a genuine concern about a risk to her children.

No.
I vehemently disagree.
Noone is obligated to be vaccinated for the benefit of others.
I say this as someone who has been shielding for the best part of a year. Noone else has to protect me.
I wouldn't put others at unnecessary risk, but ultimately protecting themselves is their job!

We are all obligated, when it comes to the safety of others. The way vaccination works is by all those who can, getting the vaccination. This then protects us all and especially the vulnerable who can't be vaccinated. It's not about just protecting yourself.

Bold fail

@ChloeCrocodile

That is an unbelievably controlling thing to do. You and your children are very low risk. If your parents have been vaccinated they are low risk. If you don’t want to see them then don’t see them. But trying to bully people into medical treatment that they don’t want makes you a dick.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I don't really get it. If your child goes to nursery then you're in indirect contact with tens or even hundreds of people anyway who will be small children and their parents so not vaccinated either and a bigger risk than your pils.

🙄

Once again, the OP is not bullying anyone into medical treatment.

They make their choices she makes hers.