AIBU to say ‘no vaccine, no seeing grandchildren’ to my anti vaccine in laws?

[Hfjshdhs]

Name changed because I’m sure that IABU and I’m a bit scared of the fallout!

My PIL are anti vaccine, conspiracy theorists (don’t think Covid exists). They are refusing to get the vaccine.

I have a 3 year old and 5 month old. The 3 year old goes to nursery, but other than that we are incredibly careful and follow all rules. My 5 month old hasn’t met anyone because we are staying safe. None of us are CEV, but equally we have friends who are healthy, have had covid, and had a really awful time of it. So we really don’t want Covid in the house.

AIBU to say to my in laws that if they don’t have the vaccine, I won’t see them, and they won’t be seeing the grandchildren? Or is that a really shitty thing to do?

For context, I have never got on with them. They are extremely controlling. My husband has a very poor relationship with them. But our daughter loves her grandparents so we make sure they have a good relationship. My PIL are both still working, in offices, so exposed every day. If I see my PIL I don’t think I could see my own parents in the following two weeks because they are vulnerable (though have been vaccinated).

Oh FFS, can we please stop with all the 'you send your child to nursery so clearly don't care about covid bs'. Childcare will come with risks like working or going to the supermarket. Formal childcare settings are often classed as covid secure because of all the additional infection control measures in place. That doesn't mean zero risks but it is not the same as seeing GPs who are covid deniers and therefore not following any of the guidelines. Dds nursery have had zero cases or suspected cases of covid because they are careful. I personally do not keep friendships with antivaxxers of any kind. They have no place in my life nor do I wish to spend time with them.

Nah. Denying the vaccine in these circumstances, without an actual valid reason (such as on medical recommendation or being in a coma), means you're a twat. Plain and simple.

@UsedUpUsername

Also, this anti-vaxxer thing is just nonsense, coming very likely from people who are not even updated on their own shots.

When’s the last time you got Tdap? Or updates on your hepatitis shots? Do you get rabies shots when travelling abroad?

Are you making sure you are getting the shingles vaccine? Or the pneumonia vaccine? Meningitis?

Are you getting your child vaccinated against chicken pox? That kills children ... (now why isn’t this one mandated?)

The short answer is that of course you don’t. You get the ones that are suitable for your particular risk profile.

If the in-laws are not particularly old, obese or have an underlying condition, they are still low risk for themselves and pose virtually no risk to you, seeing as your child goes to nursery anyway.

Yes I have got my daughter vaccinated against chickenpox. Its cheap to do privately but unfortunately we brits are a bit dim and after decades of the risks of the illness being downplayed the NHS view is that uptake of the vaccine is offered would be too low to make it worthwhile and would risk more adults getting shingles or chickenpox later on (DD will have a booster to prevent this). You don't need to be staying 'why isn't this mandatory' as if you're throwing out so great philosophy question. The NHS freely and publicly put that information out there. Most people i know are up to date on jabs. I dont need to be getting a shingles jab for example because I'm only 34 so less at risk but yes if I was offered it I would take it. Its not about risk profile if the in laws are refusing it even when its offered. Its not the lack of it being offered that is the issue.

@blackcat86

Oh FFS, can we please stop with all the 'you send your child to nursery so clearly don't care about covid bs'. Childcare will come with risks like working or going to the supermarket. Formal childcare settings are often classed as covid secure because of all the additional infection control measures in place. That doesn't mean zero risks but it is not the same as seeing GPs who are covid deniers and therefore not following any of the guidelines. Dds nursery have had zero cases or suspected cases of covid because they are careful. I personally do not keep friendships with antivaxxers of any kind. They have no place in my life nor do I wish to spend time with them.

There’s no social distancing in a nursery, you cannot make that environment COVID secure.

But I really have to call you out on the anti-vaxxer thing. Nobody gets all the vaccines that are available to them. Nobody. You get the vaccines that are suitable for your personal risk profile.

So kids should get chicken pox vaccines (hope you’ve given your DC one!) as well as MMR, Tdap and the like. They can’t even get a COVID shot at this point, and it really doesn’t matter for that age group anyway.

Elderly often get flu shots and pneumonia vaccines. Maybe the shingles one. They probably should get COVID but if they aren’t too old or obese, then they have to weigh it up.

Blanket statements like yours is just super unhelpful.

I think you're conflating the two issues- have you insisted on the flu vaccine yearly for them? Chicken pox vaccine? Whooping cough vaccine? If not- you're using this as an excuse to decrease contact, not a reason.

the NHS view is that uptake of the vaccine is offered would be too low to make it worthwhile and would risk more adults getting shingles or chickenpox later on (DD will have a booster to prevent this)

I see you’ve answered this for me. My home country requires it for school. End of.

My overall point is that individuals have different risks that they weigh up. A healthy 50y might be ok avoiding the COVID jab while an obese 40y might be better off with it.

I think you're conflating the two issues- have you insisted on the flu vaccine yearly for them? Chicken pox vaccine? Whooping cough vaccine? If not- you're using this as an excuse to decrease contact, not a reason.

Of course! I mean, Chicken Pox is so much like Covid. I remember the great Chicken Pox epidemic when I was young, we didn't go to school for a year, couldn't even see half our own family, travel was banned and the economy was screwed. Same thing happened with flu a couple of years later of course. Remember how many people died too, all around the world? Nasty pandemics they were.

@Cheeserton

I think you're conflating the two issues- have you insisted on the flu vaccine yearly for them? Chicken pox vaccine? Whooping cough vaccine? If not- you're using this as an excuse to decrease contact, not a reason.

Of course! I mean, Chicken Pox is so much like Covid. I remember the great Chicken Pox epidemic when I was young, we didn't go to school for a year, couldn't even see half our own family, travel was banned and the economy was screwed. Same thing happened with flu a couple of years later of course. Remember how many people died too, all around the world? Nasty pandemics they were.

The point is that the risk is vanishingly small to her child. And why solely focus on COVID when there’s a handful of other diseases just as deadly (or not) to her child that no one insists on vaccinations for as a prerequisite for a social visit?

It’s not like her child is an obese, elderly man with congestive heart failure 🙄

the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, or transmitting it, just means you won’t be as ill and end up in hospital. So really whether they have it or not will not affect you.

I know people are saying otherwise on this thread but this is certainly the impression I'm under.

The risks of HPV to males are vanishingly small, too (92% of HPV-caused cancers are cervical cancers; those which men can get are rare), but we give boys the HPV vaccine, primarily in the hope it'll reduce the amount of the virus floating about in the community.

My aunt has declined the vaccine. I still intend to see her, but it will need to be socially distanced in order to protect her.

bluesheep as a pp said, in recent weeks there is increasing evidence that the vaccine also reduces transmission significantly. I think the op and her dh can choose not to see the in laws if they fundamentally don't want to, but should not hide behind the vaccine as a reason.

@Lynora

You don't like them so it gives you a perfect excuse not to see them. I think that's what it boils down to.

This

My initial thoughts were you are not being unreasonable. But if you send your child to nursery, surrounded by other unvaccinated adults, then you are being unreasonable to ban the PIL.
However, sounds like they are idiots. But you can’t really use this as an excuse as you allow your child to be around other unvaccinated adults.

yabu as this is just a reason to exclude them. Even vaccinated you may not be free from the disease so it doesn't make sense.

@Motherchicken

YABU the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, or transmitting it, just means you won’t be as ill and end up in hospital. So really whether they have it or not will not affect you.

It does reduce transmission. Latest data suggests a reduction of about 67% (Oxford AZ)

But our daughter loves her grandparents so we make sure they have a good relationship

This should be the important bit of this, but of course your dislike of them is more important.

@UsedUpUsername

Also, this anti-vaxxer thing is just nonsense, coming very likely from people who are not even updated on their own shots.

When’s the last time you got Tdap? Or updates on your hepatitis shots? Do you get rabies shots when travelling abroad?

Are you making sure you are getting the shingles vaccine? Or the pneumonia vaccine? Meningitis?

Are you getting your child vaccinated against chicken pox? That kills children ... (now why isn’t this one mandated?)

The short answer is that of course you don’t. You get the ones that are suitable for your particular risk profile.

If the in-laws are not particularly old, obese or have an underlying condition, they are still low risk for themselves and pose virtually no risk to you, seeing as your child goes to nursery anyway.

The crap posted on here at present beggars believe. Unbelievable!

@Frubecube

But our daughter loves her grandparents so we make sure they have a good relationship

This should be the important bit of this, but of course your dislike of them is more important.

This thread is utterly hilarious in some respects. So often on here posters are falling over in their rush, to advise no contact with in-laws over all sorts of minor things. Mention Covid as a reason and idiots are attracted from far and wide with their ignorant beliefs about the virus and the vaccine. When I say hilarious, it’s not really, it’s fucking dangerous. The absolute ignorance about illness and vaccination is astonishing.

This thread is utterly hilarious in some respects. So often on here posters are falling over in their rush, to advise no contact with in-laws over all sorts of minor things. Mention Covid as a reason and idiots are attracted from far and wide with their ignorant beliefs about the virus and the vaccine. When I say hilarious, it’s not really, it’s fucking dangerous. The absolute ignorance about illness and vaccination is astonishing.

What are you on about? The daughter goes to nursery and will continue to do so where no one has a clue which parents and staff have been vaccinated or not, OP dislikes PIL so is using their choice on what to do with their bodies as a punishment and looking to cut off contact.

Druid what specifically do you have a problem with? Nothing is particularly controversial about what I said. You get the vaccines that fit your particular risk profile.

@UsedUpUsername

Druid what specifically do you have a problem with? Nothing is particularly controversial about what I said. You get the vaccines that fit your particular risk profile.

Any adult who can have the Covid vaccine, should have it. That’s the way vaccination works. You don’t just have it to protect yourself, you have it to protect everyone else as well, especially those who can’t have it due to being immunosuppressed.

What’s the rubbish about risk profile?

@FamilyOfAliens

I see some collective benefits of course to the vaccine however I will still research it based on my personal situation and make the choice I feel is right for me based on the data and my own risk factors.

Genuine question - where do you look when you do your research? I wouldn’t know where to start trying to find out unbiased, peer-reviewed, accessible information about this vaccine. And I have a PhD in a STEM subject.

I ask my DH for the data - he works in vaccine. Saves me the hassle. If the data isn't available yet then I'll have to make a decision without it which for me may be no vaccine yet given my personal situation.

UsedUpUsername - thank you! My thoughts exactly. Being "pro vaccine" as a blanket statement is as insane as being 'anti vaccine' as a blanket statement. Vaccines are obviously a good thing but not everyone is going to get every vaccine under the sun!

@Bluesheep8

the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, or transmitting it, just means you won’t be as ill and end up in hospital. So really whether they have it or not will not affect you.

I know people are saying otherwise on this thread but this is certainly the impression I'm under.

Impressions don't cut it in a debate. Your "impressions" are wrong and outdated. I can't believe how many have come on here, seem invested in the subject, yet haven't seem the news lately.