To feel off about boyfriend's idea of "success"

[Starbumb]

I am currently a nursery nurse and love my job, however I am a qualified teacher and although the nursery nurse pay isn't amazing, I adore my job.

Boyfriend and I had a debate in the car before about the idea of "success".

I said I'm very happy being a nursery nurse and I believe success is measured on happiness. He disagreed and said he'd be disappointed in me if I was still a nursery nurse in 10 years time when i'm 35 as I am a qualified teacher.

He believes money and ambition is the key to success.
I believe happiness is key to success.

I now feel off that if I did decide to stay as a nursery nurse that he'd be disappointed in me despite the job making me so happy.
Apparantly I am just a "glorifed babysitter".

Also, those people suggesting the OP should 'aim higher' because she might want a nice house and family holidays etc, who do you think should do jobs like being a nursery nurse etc? Only people who don't want dc? Only people who aren't bright enough to get a teaching qualification? Only people who are happy with not having a nice house? It's an important job that needs doing, and by competent people who find it rewarding and valuable.

My belief is that the jobs that "make money for someone" (ie bank) will always be paid more. My husband was a firefighter and put his life on the line every time he went into a fire - police walk into dangerous situations every day - paramedics lay themselves open to injury and disease every day ..... their pay is rubbish! Before I am roasted for missing out tons of professions - there are so many out there being paid crap for a hugely worthwhile job.

I would love to be able to afford to do a job that pays less but that I love - I have always said this. I would muck out horses and rescue animals, but have nothing in the bank at the end of the month!

You carry on doing the job you love. You ARE using your teaching skills every day and shouldn't feel bad about his interpretation of your role. It IS a skill, it IS important and it IS NOT paid enough.

By the way, my daughter is a deputy manager in a nursery and she is damn good at it! People like your boyfriend would not be able to go to work if nurseries didn't exist.

@lazylinguist

Also, those people suggesting the OP should 'aim higher' because she might want a nice house and family holidays etc, who do you think should do jobs like being a nursery nurse etc? Only people who don't want dc? Only people who aren't bright enough to get a teaching qualification? Only people who are happy with not having a nice house? It's an important job that needs doing, and by competent people who find it rewarding and valuable.

No, but I would say nobody should do those jobs until they become properly compensated.

I think it’s nice to want to do something to the point you would happily do it for free everyday of the week but it allows the government to use your goodwill as a way to keep your wage low.

The «I love it so much it’s barely work so I don’t mind not being paid as I am doing it out of vocation» is exactly why many industry gets away with remaining underpaid.

Like a pp said, firefighters, nurses, teachers and caregivers are ALL underpaid. And a main reason as to why IMO is because those are often vocation based jobs, some who come with a certain amount of societal respect (firefighters, teachers and currently nurses) and the government seem to think they can make up the low wage with the satisfaction people seem to get out of their jobs.

If nurses, firefighters, childcare givers ALL stopped working, money would quickly be found to raise their salary as they are indeed essential workers.

I'd say overwhelmingly do something that makes you happy! Ok, you need to be earning enough to live on, but I wouldn't do a high-paid job if it made me unhappy.

Hi There,
Lets take the despotic boyfriend out of the equation for a moment.

I believe I have read the unfortunate echo of the experience regarding men who haven't come anywhere near the mark in some of your repliers. No surprise there then !

As someone who has TAs and Teachers in my extended family, could I suggest that you give a thought to the following strategy, for yourself, rather than tempering the wishes/desires/expectations of someone other than you.
We have two teachers who have become TAs in our family, one by necessity and one by choice. We also have two TA's by choice and training. (Sadly no males but that's another discussion).
What has given the Teachers pause for thought is the ability to utilise their chosen career, (Teacher)at a later time in their working life

Possibly post children, when part time teaching may enable them to earn more for less time away from the children and family.
Both are still Union members and members of staff associations, if given the chance at least one would currently do both TA and teacher part time. I Appreciate that this event may seem unlikely, but always look at your situation from both sides, your expectations may change. Do not forget all the amazing things you may have learned/saw as a Teacher. Extend your horizons rather than potentially limit them.

Finally a word from my Mother(now sadly passed on, but happily married for over forty years, NO Really).

'The only person you are guaranteed to wake up next to, is yourself'
Much Love and Good Luck
PBVincent

When I first married I was in a senior role and heading up the ladder. To continue to progress we would have had to move, my husbands comment was that he wouldn't move for my job as it wasn't as important as his. He earned the same as me and was not ambitious so could have earned a lot more. We had children and I stepped back from my senior role and set up my own business to fit in with family. My husband continued in the same role just earning more by length of service increments. During our marriage I realised he didn't value my job (whatever role) or what I did in the house or for the family. It took over 40years for me to LTB but I have and omg I'm so happy and so cross that I didn't realise what a gaslighting selfish twat he was and is. For your boyfriend to think so poorly of you this early in the relationship should be a red flag.

The thing is. On 19 k , most people in the Uk aren’t ever going to be able to ever buy a house, kids coming into the equation are expensive, life being skint is not a bundle of fun, no matter how much you love your job. Rent, bills, living. It adds up.

If the op is happy that the consequences of being a low earner she finds acceptable then there’s no issue. The issue comes in if she wishes to buy a house, have kids, holidays. Then her low earning becomes more problematic. It’s a balance on what you want from life and your priorities. Or when you want to be with someone who basically works to pay for those things for you. So you can continue to do the low earning job you love.

If she’s happy with the lifestyle her job can fund. And she doesn’t expect any partner to contribute more than her, then it’s fine.

But for him it’s limiting. He earns more and has a plan. But to stay with the op either he limits what he can have so they equally contribute to thr level she can afford, or he pays for the bulk and carries her.

As said, they are incompatible. Neither is wrong in their life approach. He needs ro find someone who wants what he wants. She needs to find someone who is also happy on a low income.

He might change his mind. My DH was all about money when we met and his family is obsessed with money.
But a few years with me changed his mind, he now believes happiness is key. He has even turned down well paid jobs as a long commute would be less time with the family.
I would be honest with him though and tell him nicely you would probably never be a teacher.

@Bluntness100

The thing is. On 19 k , most people in the Uk aren’t ever going to be able to ever buy a house, kids coming into the equation are expensive, life being skint is not a bundle of fun, no matter how much you love your job. Rent, bills, living. It adds up.

If the op is happy that the consequences of being a low earner she finds acceptable then there’s no issue. The issue comes in if she wishes to buy a house, have kids, holidays. Then her low earning becomes more problematic. It’s a balance on what you want from life and your priorities. Or when you want to be with someone who basically works to pay for those things for you. So you can continue to do the low earning job you love.

If she’s happy with the lifestyle her job can fund. And she doesn’t expect any partner to contribute more than her, then it’s fine.

But for him it’s limiting. He earns more and has a plan. But to stay with the op either he limits what he can have so they equally contribute to thr level she can afford, or he pays for the bulk and carries her.

As said, they are incompatible. Neither is wrong in their life approach. He needs ro find someone who wants what he wants. She needs to find someone who is also happy on a low income.

We have managed on this ok, plenty of holidays and travel, kids have never gone without, pay some school fees, eat well. You can live well on 19k, even a family with 3 kids. Not too many takeaways but we aren't that keen anyway.

@Devlesko you can certainly get by on 19k. I don’t think anyone’s suggesting you can’t.

As an example when DCs turn 16/17, driving is a fantastic skill and I’m certainly going to encourage my two DCs to by 1) paying for their lessons and 2) buying them a suitable car when they pass.

I could not afford such things on 19k whilst maintaining a decent standard of living AND going on holidays to show them the world AND treating us along the way at birthdays/Christmas.

School clubs and extracurricular activities that help development enormously are pretty much all expensive to maintain. I want to be able to provide for those hobbies/activities. I can’t do that on 19k.

We all make choices and I don’t think any one of those is ‘bad’.

Plenty of after school activities, we've done dancing schools, music lessons.
Saved for cars for each of them, they had plenty of xmas and birthday presents.
Quite a luxurious lifestyle really, sometimes on less than 19k.
We wanted to provide all these things for our kids, so we did

I must not be ambitious enough. Im 35 and been working in nursery's/childcare for 12 years. I am married, have a mortgage and just had a baby. Yes i work in a low paid job but i enjoy it. Personally i would reconsider your relationship with him. Your enjoyment and happiness in what you do is more important, not what he expects you to do

@Sapho47

Do you think the replies to this thread explain the gender pay gap somewhat?

The overwhelming response seems to be "take a lower paying job you enjoy" and "success isn't measured in salary"

Perhaps, if people aren't ambitious to make lot's of money, they aren't going to attempt to. Personally my view is my freedom is worth more than money. Time, is more important to me, than working to spend money. So me/ dh live by our philosophy, neither of us are interested in more money. He's a top specialist in his field, there's just not much money/hours paid. That's fine though because it works well for us, and we consider ourselves successfully happy We don't expect others to share our philosophy and aware many don't. We also don't think of our views as better or worse than anyone else's

@Devlesko I disagree that happiness automatically give you freedom. Unfortunately we live in a world that costs a considerable amount of money and the less money you have I do believe the less freedom you have as the less choices and options you have.

I mean how many threads on Mumsnets are of women trapped in an abusive relationship who can’t live because they are financially dependent on their husband because they either stopped earning altogether or chose to work part time or volunteer. Or young couples putting up with a toxic mom or MIL because MIL or mom give them money with many strings attached but that keep the roof of their kids head.

I mean even the OP, if she stays with her boyfriend is likely to come back on Mumsnet in 5 years time saying something along the lines of “I have one kid with DH but I have just realized he doesn’t value me and continuously make nasty remarks about me. I can’t leave though, because we have a mortgage and a kid and I have no way to buy him out or afford the lifestyle we currently have on my own.”

So many women are trapped in abusive relationships or in shitty situations due to having no access or very little to money. Leaving them vulnerable and in a very fragile situations. How many women are also trapped in jobs they don’t like because they can’t afford to retrain into something else etc...?

Money doesn’t bring you happiness but it buys you choices, it gives you independence from others (especially the toxic people in your life) and in most ways give you more freedom.

Mumsnet is often the perfect example as to why staying in low-paid job is rarely a good idea, especially for women.

You are happy on your current wage because you are in a seemingly loving and healthy relationship with your husband and therefore also benefit from joint income (even if his isn’t high either). You feel free because your income currently doesn’t limit your options, but if one big factor where to change (health-wise, massive repair needed on the house, or impromptu separation from your DH) having less money would soon become more of a headache than the taste of freedom.

I think women should be happy and love what they do but I also think they should be smart and make sure they are set financially so they never end up in a situation where they are trapped in an abusive relationship and don’t have the means to leave.

I grew up with a mom on minimum wage (also working in childcare and who also worked for a while as a nursery nurse), my dad was abusive. We ended up bankrupt and struggling for years. We, as kids (me specifically) saw things we shouldn’t have seen because my mom didn’t have the financial means to immediately up and leave and detach herself from my dad at the first signs of abuse. My mom love her job and it’s an important job caring for kids but it has seriously limited her options and has often kept her in seriously unhealthy and shitty situations throughout her life and I would never call my mom a free woman. She loves her job and that’s something important but she isn’t free and I don’t think she has ever been free because money and especially lack of money, dictate so much of one’s life.

I know, but not having any of these worries, means you don't have to worry so you are stress free and happy. We have all emergencies covered.
We don't have 2 incomes, just the one.
It works for us.

@Devlesko

Plenty of after school activities, we've done dancing schools, music lessons. Saved for cars for each of them, they had plenty of xmas and birthday presents. Quite a luxurious lifestyle really, sometimes on less than 19k. We wanted to provide all these things for our kids, so we did

But that was my point, earning more than 19k full time means you don’t have to save for those things. You can buy as and when they arise.

Also your point about time being more important to you is moot if you only want to earn 19k a year full time. If time was the important factor then the smart thing to do is upskill to a highly paid job and reduce your hours. So instead of doing 40 hours a week for 19k it would be 10/15 hours a week.

No definitely, I agree, as I said in my PP I don’t think there’s a wrong way of doing it. Some of the reasoning doesn’t make sense though.

if you are happy with your job, no one has a say I think.

although, if that means you have no ambition to learn more or develop in your career in 10 years, I think it’s understandable that someone who is very close to you can be disappointed with you.

you can always say you are going to develop yourself in this area now, he seems to think that you are in a dead end and no plans for progressing your career.

There’s some red flags there @Starbumb. Not sure you and your bf share similar values.

Was saying this to dh OP and he was saying that the worry is in the future he will either be nudging you to move from the job, or any big decisions will be based on his job alone as he won't see yours as equal

It depends. Both points if view are valid

Around 10 years ago, I used to work a normal job and it was great fun. But average to low pay.

I couldn't buy a house, afford a nice car, go abroad to nice places, etc.

So I ended up stressed and unhappy.

5 years ago, I retrained and now earn double what I did then.

I dont enjoy my job, but I can afford the things I want.

My plan, is work this job until 50. Semi retire and go back to my old job part time / for fun.

Win win.

He's a snob! He looks down on your choice because he considers it low status. The thing is with people who look down, they're also looking up so his life will be a continual struggle of getting ahead.

Satisfaction and joy is rare anywhere never mind a job! Drop him and if you can afford it, stick with what you enjoy.

Also your point about time being more important to you is moot if you only want to earn 19k a year full time. If time was the important factor then the smart thing to do is upskill to a highly paid job and reduce your hours. So instead of doing 40 hours a week for 19k it would be 10/15 hours a week.

It averages around 4 - 6 hours work a week lol. Both liked being there for the kids. H.ed and travelling.
Very few people can afford a car outright, so you save and pay cash, far better than taking on debt.

Happiness is a key marker of success but having enough money to meet your needs (and perhaps those of a family later on) can really limit your happiness. There's a balance.

Nursery nurses often earn little more than minimum wage. Most nursery nurses who are comfortably off with children of their own rely on a higher earning partner. So you are effectively expecting someone else to shoulder the responsibility of providing financial security to allow you to enjoy your job.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but i don't care, it is doing my head in. PLEASE will everyone on this thread take note:

The plural of "nursery" is "nurseries"

The word nursery's uses the possessive apostrophe and would be more appropriately used describing something belonging to the nursery eg "the nursery's garden is well appointed".

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Happiness is a key marker of success but having enough money to meet your needs (and perhaps those of a family later on) can really limit your happiness. There's a balance.

Nursery nurses often earn little more than minimum wage. Most nursery nurses who are comfortably off with children of their own rely on a higher earning partner. So you are effectively expecting someone else to shoulder the responsibility of providing financial security to allow you to enjoy your job.

Nursery workers getting paid shite money is a separate issue, I think. While I agree being able to meet your needs is essential, even if everybody in the country had great qualifications, someone would still need to stack the shelves, work in a nursery and so on.