To feel off about boyfriend's idea of "success"

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I am currently a nursery nurse and love my job, however I am a qualified teacher and although the nursery nurse pay isn't amazing, I adore my job.

Boyfriend and I had a debate in the car before about the idea of "success".

I said I'm very happy being a nursery nurse and I believe success is measured on happiness. He disagreed and said he'd be disappointed in me if I was still a nursery nurse in 10 years time when i'm 35 as I am a qualified teacher.

He believes money and ambition is the key to success.
I believe happiness is key to success.

I now feel off that if I did decide to stay as a nursery nurse that he'd be disappointed in me despite the job making me so happy.
Apparantly I am just a "glorifed babysitter".

He sounds very opinionated, immature, and arrogant and sadly seems to disrespect you. However I'm also very concerned about some of the comments on here that seem to be supporting his views.
Happiness is success.

People who are saying that it's fair enough that he has a different opinion to the OP, or that he's right to be thinking about their financial level and lifestyle in the future are completely missing the point.

Saying "It would be great if you found a full time teaching job sometime soonish, especially if we want to start a family or save for a house" would be fine. Belittling the OP's work, calling her a bum wiper and a glorified babysitter and implying he'd be disappointed or ashamed of her if she remained a nursery nurse is very much NOT fine.

Do people actually know what the average wage is , where I live £20000 is prob average so all those saying £19000 isn't enough and not fair on partner are you all happy to pay an extra few grand a year so the nursery worker can earn more
Lots of people working full time earn under £20000 of all the jobs on jobsite today by me only a couple were paying £35000 most were between£17000 -23000 some skilled , some not

My dh took on a much better paid job a year ago and its showing its toll and we have discussed him looking for a similar job to what he had before for less pay ,as the money for is just hsn't been worth his health or work/ home life balance
Some people seek high pressure others don't
I would rather he is happy than the extra money

He would be so dumped if I was you Thank you for your commitment to childcare

It's ok to have different opinions on what success means, but I would be concerned that he doesn't reapect your idea of success, and that he's denigrating what you do for a living.
Ideally you should be with someone who's values align with yours.

His view of success is quite narrow. There is certainly room for both views in this world, and both should be respected.

My elder son is like your BF. "He who dies with the most toys wins." My younger one is more like me (and you). "He who most loves the toys he has wins."

This may, I fear, be a real stumbling block in this relationship. You are either going to have to change his mind (not likely), knuckle under and leave a job you love (which would be a sin and a shame), or steel yourself to moving on from a relationship that is so unequal in values.

I highly recommend the third. It is painful, but far less painful than either living with a man who feels you are a disappointment and somehow "lesser," or dealing with the slowly growing resentment you feel about having to give up something that fulfills you to suit someone else's idea of "success."

I won't call him horrible names. I could, but I won't. The fact of the matter is that many, if not most, men are trained very early to think of their worth in terms of how much they make at their jobs. This means that many of them think in those terms about ALL jobs and ALL people. But it does mean that your basic values are almost certainly fatally incompatible.

I wouldnt worry. Your only 25 and I assume him similar.

27 is the new mid life crisis.

I kid you not.

His views will change drastically within the next 10 years.

Dump him. However much you feel for him right now, you two have very basic differences in values, and if you carry on with him you're doomed to a life of disappointment and resentment. Btw, I'm 100% with you, having been in both situations: a lower paid/status job that you love beats a higher paid job where you're less fulfilled, hands down.

I agree with you OP. People who think that good jobs and money equal success are people I try to avoid, and I wouldn't want to be with someone who questioned my choices and tried to change me.

@eaglejulesk

I agree with you OP. People who think that good jobs and money equal success are people I try to avoid, and I wouldn't want to be with someone who questioned my choices and tried to change me.

The problem is that we do live in a society that costs money...it's all very well being poor but happy but when the shit hits the fan I'd rather my partner had prospects.

Do you think the replies to this thread explain the gender pay gap somewhat?

The overwhelming response seems to be "take a lower paying job you enjoy" and "success isn't measured in salary"

That's one way of looking at it, the capitalist viewpoint. Very narrow, and absolutely to the detriment of all. Nothing matters more than caring for the vulnerable, to do so benefits all.

No it doesn't, thats why communists usually kill all the vulnerable when they take power.

Caring for the vunerable and disabled is a drain on society over all, resources are spent with no likelihood of them being returned.

In communism this isn't sustainable and so purges and pogroms are used to remove them.

In capitalism though thats someone's mum or dad or daughter, that means they have value, someone will pay for their care.

So someone will sell care, then in our lovely socio-capitalist middle ground we get the solution of private enterprise providing care paid for by the government via mass taxation.

Capitalism finds the value in everything.

Capitalism has taken humanity from subsistence living to it being possible to earn a living through taking photos of yourself doing fun things.

@Sapho47

That's one way of looking at it, the capitalist viewpoint. Very narrow, and absolutely to the detriment of all. Nothing matters more than caring for the vulnerable, to do so benefits all.

No it doesn't, thats why communists usually kill all the vulnerable when they take power.

Caring for the vunerable and disabled is a drain on society over all, resources are spent with no likelihood of them being returned.

In communism this isn't sustainable and so purges and pogroms are used to remove them.

In capitalism though thats someone's mum or dad or daughter, that means they have value, someone will pay for their care.

So someone will sell care, then in our lovely socio-capitalist middle ground we get the solution of private enterprise providing care paid for by the government via mass taxation.

Capitalism finds the value in everything.

Capitalism has taken humanity from subsistence living to it being possible to earn a living through taking photos of yourself doing fun things.

Great post and I agree. My DH keeps banging on about how society needs to be more sharing and giving etc and I tell him that the realities of living in a commune are always that shit goes wrong fairly fast.

People shag other people's partners, jealousy and corruption always take over.

Capitalism is hard but it works.

The more that men devalue early years childcare, the less likely they are to step up domestically and take more responsibility for their own children. If society reinforces the idea that spending time with children is lacking in prestige, value and worth, an activity to be shunned by anyone with a semblance of common sense, why on earth would more men want to do it?

@lazylinguist

People who are saying that it's fair enough that he has a different opinion to the OP, or that he's right to be thinking about their financial level and lifestyle in the future are completely missing the point.

Saying "It would be great if you found a full time teaching job sometime soonish, especially if we want to start a family or save for a house" would be fine. Belittling the OP's work, calling her a bum wiper and a glorified babysitter and implying he'd be disappointed or ashamed of her if she remained a nursery nurse is very much NOT fine.

You can already tell that if he becomes a father he’s going to do as little ‘babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ as humanely possible, and will act like a martyr if he has to look after his children for more than one hour.

@Circumlocutious

The more that men devalue early years childcare, the less likely they are to step up domestically and take more responsibility for their own children. If society reinforces the idea that spending time with children is lacking in prestige, value and worth, an activity to be shunned by anyone with a semblance of common sense, why on earth would more men want to do it?

Do you remember any of your early year carers?

I know the name of the woman who ran the play group I went to only because my mum has talked about her as an adult.

I don't even remember the play group in all honesty.

People devalue early years stuff because from most peoples perspectives "i did fine without it!" Even though they didn't they just don't remember

@Sapho47

Our memories (or lack thereof) may play a small part - although you would expect most adults to grasp that the significance of a developmental phase isn’t just in what you ‘remember’ of it. I don’t remember my 0-3 year phase but 80% of my brain had developed in that time. This isn’t a new discovery.

And certainly, you would expect policymakers to grasp that. Many of us also know that poor quality childcare exists in abundance in the UK, we know what it looks like- high staff turnover, low morale, inconsistency in provision - and we know that it’s fostered by a system whereby childcare is provided by an army of atrociously-paid young women.

But no, societal (and economic) devaluing plays a huge part. 50% of childcare workers in Sweden have an MA. Significantly more men are now entering that field of work. If people know that a profession lacks prestige and is poorly regarded, they will devalue it even further in their minds.

As I said, chances are high that OP’s BF will be a shit, bare-minimum future dad. ‘Babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ is his summary of early years childcare. Why would he want to do any of that, ever? His attitudes will spill over to the domestic sphere.

[quote Circumlocutious]@Sapho47

Our memories (or lack thereof) may play a small part - although you would expect most adults to grasp that the significance of a developmental phase isn’t just in what you ‘remember’ of it. I don’t remember my 0-3 year phase but 80% of my brain had developed in that time. This isn’t a new discovery.

And certainly, you would expect policymakers to grasp that. Many of us also know that poor quality childcare exists in abundance in the UK, we know what it looks like- high staff turnover, low morale, inconsistency in provision - and we know that it’s fostered by a system whereby childcare is provided by an army of atrociously-paid young women.

But no, societal (and economic) devaluing plays a huge part. 50% of childcare workers in Sweden have an MA. Significantly more men are now entering that field of work. If people know that a profession lacks prestige and is poorly regarded, they will devalue it even further in their minds.

As I said, chances are high that OP’s BF will be a shit, bare-minimum future dad. ‘Babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ is his summary of early years childcare. Why would he want to do any of that, ever? His attitudes will spill over to the domestic sphere.[/quote]
But what we remember of it is our life experience.

We know that that 80% development time can be quite successfully done by an illiterate and for the majority of history it has been, thats not a new discovery.

As I said, chances are high that OP’s BF will be a shit, bare-minimum future dad. ‘Babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ is his summary of early years childcare. Why would he want to do any of that, ever? His attitudes will spill over to the domestic sphere.*

I think there's a difference in people approach to thier own child's physical care and the paid for care of others children.

You are right to feel off. Kindergarten teachers and all other care staff are frightfully undervalued by a society that values money rather than people. And success should definitely be measured in terms of happiness.

@Sapho47

* As I said, chances are high that OP’s BF will be a shit, bare-minimum future dad. ‘Babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ is his summary of early years childcare. Why would he want to do any of that, ever? His attitudes will spill over to the domestic sphere.*

I think there's a difference in people approach to thier own child's physical care and the paid for care of others children.

Funny that most men haven’t grasped that difference yet.

The societal consensus is that caring for children = a waste of an adult’s time, abilities, individual self-worth and prestige.

By simply pushing this childcare burden onto underpaid young women, instead of finding ways of promoting it among men, we have simply papered over the cracks. As the pandemic has exposed.

@Sapho47

* As I said, chances are high that OP’s BF will be a shit, bare-minimum future dad. ‘Babysitting’ and ‘bum wiping’ is his summary of early years childcare. Why would he want to do any of that, ever? His attitudes will spill over to the domestic sphere.*

I think there's a difference in people approach to thier own child's physical care and the paid for care of others children.

To add, this is event OP’s point:

Apparently "all" I do is wipe bums and tell children to "play nicely"

Utterly clueless. Devaluing what she does. Will clearly have a shock to the system if he has kids (god forbid it’s more than one child) with minimal chances of stepping up. His attitude is obvious.

Well he has been rude and it's no way to talk to you, especially if you like what you do. But if I am honest, if DH was working in a low paid job when he had the qualifications for a better one then I might find that frustrating as it would impact our family income and therefore our lifestyle. I am a teacher and I have chosen to stay as a line teacher rather than go up the career ladder - it's not for me (having gone as far as HoD and not enjoyed it). But I still stay in teaching because it attracts a high enough salary for our family lifestyle. I think DH would be disappointed if I worked in a lower paid job by choice.

But I think it's a shame he has spoken to you rudely about it and if you feel insecure about how he might treat you in future then your relationship needs looking it.

I think it was an important topic to raise and, while you might not like his views, it has clearly shown a deep division in how you both want to live in the future. You seem happy coasting along, he wants more monetary focused success for himself and his partner. Quite a big divide to try and bridge if you choose to stay together.