Am I "allowed" to just not like certain things?

[Anycrispsleft]

I have lived in Germany for about 5 years and I'm planning to leave in an year or two. We have primary school aged kids, and I went on a German parenting forum the other day to ask a quick question about primary school assessment and ended up mentioning when asked that I was planning to leave Germany, and when pressed, admitted that I don't like it here. I then got loads of comments that I wasn't trying hard enough, that of course as a SAHM I must be unfulfilled and I should have done voluntary work and found hobbies so I could make friends and so on.

Maybe I should have done all that but I don't think it would have helped. I do know a few people from the kids being in school - nice people who I like - but hanging out with people while speaking German isn't fun to me at all, it's like a German class, and after an hour or so I'm knackered and desperate to leave. I was always quite an introvert and I think in the UK I got most of my positive social interactions with work colleagues and just as you deal with strangers through your day, saying hello to the lady at the checkout in Tesco's or whatever. Those kind of small scale interactions are really hard, I find, in a foreign language - if you misunderstand one word that's it, you've missed the person's wee funny comment, and the moment is lost. It's no biggie, but (especially in these corona times) when that happens every time you talk to someone it's a bit depressing.
Other than that, I just like being in the UK! I like the way it looks, I like the weather, the food - I like home. We went abroad in the first place because DH had to move for work. We'd already lived in his home country of Switzerland for a year a long while back and I'd hated it then and told him sorry but I want to settle in the UK, and he'd agreed, and then when our kids were little he lost his job and when he couldn't immediately find a new job he started looking in the German speaking world - when he found something I, well, I might have been able to veto it but he would have spent the entire rest of our lives complaining about how his career was hamstrung by the UK, so I thought let's move and at least if I have to give my job up I will see a lot more of the kids... and it's been OK as far as it goes but I didn't exactly arrive here excited about the prospect of life in Germany, I'm still not, I still like the UK much better and is lots of things from there. Is that U? Do we need to be positive about bloody everything? I've found in my younger life that I ended up doing jobs and courses and stuff because I thought it would be good for me and I often ignored the wee voice inside that went "this is shite" and just doubled down and tried harder, and all that ended up happening as a result is that I spent more time doing shit I don't like. AIBU in saying that sometimes you just don't enjoy some things and all the effort in the world won't significantly shift your feelings, and that's probably actually fine?

You're entitled to dislike whatever you please!

My best guess is that your wording offended them , if you'd have said that you were homesick you may have had a different response.

Not Germany but I lived in Paris for 7 years and didn't like it for various reasons and sometimes people struggle to understand and accept that. So I fully understand where you're coming from. Emma Beddington wrote a book We'll Always Have Paris that was about this and I really recommend it - different country, similar situation to yours in particular in her book.

It's seemingly a natural response. When we left the US my friends there were aghast that we had chosen to go, and that I was actually looking forward to returning to the U.K. I figured it's something that exists in most of us at a fairly base level, that we'd be hard pushed to explain.

You picked the wrong forum to mention you were feeling homesick and you phrased it in a way that may have come across as critical and got others defending their home country/ or chosen country. It sounds like they've tried to persuade you show lovely they find it there and how you could improve your sense of inclusion. Difficult in Covid times, but.,, You should have just stuck to your school assessment question and not said too much in replying to irrelevant queries.

I agree with other PPs, I'd have phrased it homesick for my home country/ U.K. rather than disliking it there.. and I'd have saved that convo for the right (more private) audience or support network

Of course you are allowed to dislike anything, including the country you are in. Most people however, probably broadly enjoy living in the country that they are in and actively wanting to go elsewhere probably seems a little odd, so to echo a PP, saying "I miss my home in the UK" would have been better received and made more sense to people than "I don't like Germany and would like to leave."

I have lived abroad before (in my case France and Germany) and I have found it's best never to answer honestly when people ask how you like their country.

There were many things I enjoyed about both places but lots of things I didn't, and people get very affronted if you mention them when asked.

I’ve moved around a lot, and some countries/cities I’ve enjoyed and others absolutely not, because the kind of life available there simply didn’t suit me — which always makes me impatient with the people who claim on threads about moving countries that ‘it’s much the same everywhere because you still have to pay bills and clean the sink’. (These people tend to be those who base their claim on an annual foreign holiday.)

Of course you’re ‘allowed’ not to like somewhere you live, especially as you’ve given it a more than fair chance. I’ve never lived in Germany, but I have lived in Switzerland and loathed it. It’s right up here with Dubai and Leicestershire as places I’ve not enjoyed living at all. I left the US (Boston) for London (not from the UK) as I didn’t care for it enough to stay.

Having said that, it’s not for me ‘home country vs other country’, it’s ‘places that suit me vs places that don’t.’

I answered YABU because you 'blamed' Germany rather than saying you miss England iyswim.

You don't have to stay but there is nothing inherently wrong with Germany.

When you say Do we need to be positive about bloody everything? I think no, but life is usually better for those people who are (I am not always one of them!)

Surely the person you need to be having this discussion with is your DH? You've already moved abroad twice for his work when you don't want to. It's time to start advocating for yourself in your relationship.

You’re never going to get on the right side of people when you say you dislike their country.

Of course you’re entitled to just not like things.

YANBU but perhaps like pp suggested your wording offended them, I get you about social interactions feeling like a language class though. I live abroad, 90% of my friends are either expats or locals of 'colonial descent' so we communicate in English. Sometimes people from home accuse me of not embracing the local culture, staying in a bubble etc. which is probably true to an extent but also like you I find having a conversation in the local language exhausting, my knowledge is limited which also makes it hard to actually build more than an acquaintanceship. I think this is a common problem amongst expats although most expats in this country are fluent in english I have heard many talking about wanting to find someone to speak their first language with.

I think the language barrier has played a huge part in your view of Germany.

I wonder if you had been in an English speaking country you would have been more comfortable

Um you went on to a German forum, full of Germans and told them you didn’t like Germany? What did you think the reaction would be?

Honestly there’s a way to phrase things so as not to offend. And this was not it 😃

Sorry, but at 'Dubai and Leicestershire'

Tbf, OP, I think you'd have got very similar responses on MN You can get a rough time on forums if you're perceived as 'moaning'. As far as your general question goes, of course you're allowed not to like things, but (respectfully) it does sound as if you've always been very much in the 'don't like this' position and perhaps not thrown yourself into things as much as might have helped (and I appreciate introversion etc). People are always sensitive at criticism of what they identify with. Plus don't forget the strength of the idea of 'Integration' in German culture. As a 'foreigner' you're supposed to 'integrate'. These posters will have been told via general cultural messaging that this is a two-way task and may well see complaining as you not making the effort.

And tbh I can't entirely blame your dh for looking for a job in Germany, given as he was evidently the main earner at that time (and now sole earner) and employment rights are frankly much much better over here (I'm in Germany, as you may have guessed). IIWY I would be looking at staying long enough for you and your dc to get the benefits of EU citizenship (although presumably they also have Swiss citizenship so can access most of them). I do think if you want to move back to the UK you will have to give up some of your passivity and work out how you can help fund it. Again meant kindly - there is a touch of entrenched discontent about your post which I'm not sure would disappear magically once you're back in the UK.

People are almost bound to be offended if you say you don’t like their country, rather than pleading homesickness.

A Swede I know, who spent a year in the US as a teen, was often asked which he preferred - America or Sweden? it was obvious what answer was invariably wanted, and expected almost as a matter of course. He had to be very diplomatic.

you were critical of their home, what did you expect? people are protective of where they live.

@Anycrispsleft I remember reading a story about a man who trained for many years to be a lawyer. Once trained her worked for about a year but discovered he hated it. His family told him not to waste the several years training he’d put in so he got stuck in and remained a successful lawyer for the next 50 years. Later he admitted his regret was that he always hated being a lawyer, despite his success, and if he’d accepted his dislike when he was one year in, he’d have only suffered it for one year, not 50.

Moral of the tale - we dislike what we dislike and to suffer it for longer than we need makes no sense looking back.

Mate, you've given it 5 years and it's still not "home" for you, so honestly, I think YANBU at all. It's not like you're in your first year there!

@Bythemillpond

I think the language barrier has played a huge part in your view of Germany.

I wonder if you had been in an English speaking country you would have been more comfortable

Not necessarily. I've been in Australia for 12 years now but I still miss the UK and still sometimes wish I hadn't moved over here - DH is Aussie though so he wanted to "come home". I've been grateful in one way to be here over the last year, and utterly devastated in another - my Dad and family are all in the UK and I can't get to see them, probably not for another year (unless an emergency crops up) because of the return quarantine costs.

Some people are happy in other countries, some less so.

You probably got their backs up insulting their country (even if you didn't mean that). Were you writing in English or German?

One of the things people say they have a problem with, here in Germany, is their directness. From what you wrote it looks as though they were doing the thing people do with their kids when they say they're bored: making suggestions of how not to be bored.

but it does sound as though your real problem with Germany is that it's not England. If you're not fluent it can make it worse. TBH I'm now the same way about the UK but if i ever say that, people get snotty with me. It's just how it is.

YANBU to just not like certain things.

YABU to write that you don't like living in Germany on a German forum and not expect defensive replies.

YABU to think this means they're not "allowing" you to dislike things. You're still allowed to dislike living there. No one is being the thought police here. You offered an opinion, and when you do that people will offer theirs. I think you need to get over yourself a bit.

I completely understand as I lived in Spain for nine years and yearned to be back in the U.K. from the moment I got there until the moment I moved back. It was a lot to do with the language. I could never be myself as I couldn’t express myself as fluently or got nuances of humour or be quick enough to be funny myself. Conversations with Spanish people were dull because my Spanish or their English wasn’t good enough to make them more interesting. So I totally get that. I also later lived in Australia for a year and missed England terribly which showed me that it wasn’t just the language but also a cultural thing. People say I was lucky to have had those opportunities but in all honesty, the main benefit was appreciating what I had at home and knowing that I don’t ever want to live abroad again.

You'd get the same on here if you posted about not liking the UK - many, many people get defensive if you seem to be criticising or just admit not liking their home country. Always say you miss your country - people are almost always sympathetic - rather than dislike theirs.

Its the same as saying that you want to go home to your own house, cutting a stay with a friend short, because you dislike your friend's house or family - pretty rude, but if you said you were leaving because you're homesick or missed your own family or just found you could only sleep well in your own bed it wouldn't be rude and you'd usually be met with a sympathetic response.

Of course you're allowed to dislike things, but sometimes there's nothing gained and much lost by telling people outright that you dislike their home!

I live in Germany too and absolutely know what you mean about it being exhausting socialising in a foreign language - it took me a solid ten years for that to stop being the case. SAHM circles are particularly different in Germany I think, and it is true working helps and relationships can develop more naturally with colleagues, but its also incredibly difficult for both parents to work with young children in some parts of Germany (that massively varies by state though).

You are entitled to feel however you want!

My sister has lived in many places, including Germany for a good five years. She never felt fully accepted there as a foreigner and always had the suspicion she was being kept slightly at arms length even by those who were friendly with her. She found it difficult to make meaningful friendships outside of those group of people she already knew prior to moving (housemates).

I know it isn’t just her as she is the most social person you’d ever wish to meet. She did say it was the only real drawback and otherwise Germany was absolutely lovely.

It sounds like you’re homesick too - sending hugs and hope it all works out with the move back whenever that may be.

This is why I would never want to live abroad unless I was fluent in the language. I think I would also feel lonely like you do OP.