Am I "allowed" to just not like certain things?

[Anycrispsleft]

I have lived in Germany for about 5 years and I'm planning to leave in an year or two. We have primary school aged kids, and I went on a German parenting forum the other day to ask a quick question about primary school assessment and ended up mentioning when asked that I was planning to leave Germany, and when pressed, admitted that I don't like it here. I then got loads of comments that I wasn't trying hard enough, that of course as a SAHM I must be unfulfilled and I should have done voluntary work and found hobbies so I could make friends and so on.

Maybe I should have done all that but I don't think it would have helped. I do know a few people from the kids being in school - nice people who I like - but hanging out with people while speaking German isn't fun to me at all, it's like a German class, and after an hour or so I'm knackered and desperate to leave. I was always quite an introvert and I think in the UK I got most of my positive social interactions with work colleagues and just as you deal with strangers through your day, saying hello to the lady at the checkout in Tesco's or whatever. Those kind of small scale interactions are really hard, I find, in a foreign language - if you misunderstand one word that's it, you've missed the person's wee funny comment, and the moment is lost. It's no biggie, but (especially in these corona times) when that happens every time you talk to someone it's a bit depressing.
Other than that, I just like being in the UK! I like the way it looks, I like the weather, the food - I like home. We went abroad in the first place because DH had to move for work. We'd already lived in his home country of Switzerland for a year a long while back and I'd hated it then and told him sorry but I want to settle in the UK, and he'd agreed, and then when our kids were little he lost his job and when he couldn't immediately find a new job he started looking in the German speaking world - when he found something I, well, I might have been able to veto it but he would have spent the entire rest of our lives complaining about how his career was hamstrung by the UK, so I thought let's move and at least if I have to give my job up I will see a lot more of the kids... and it's been OK as far as it goes but I didn't exactly arrive here excited about the prospect of life in Germany, I'm still not, I still like the UK much better and is lots of things from there. Is that U? Do we need to be positive about bloody everything? I've found in my younger life that I ended up doing jobs and courses and stuff because I thought it would be good for me and I often ignored the wee voice inside that went "this is shite" and just doubled down and tried harder, and all that ended up happening as a result is that I spent more time doing shit I don't like. AIBU in saying that sometimes you just don't enjoy some things and all the effort in the world won't significantly shift your feelings, and that's probably actually fine?

You're absolutely allowed not to like Germany - but it would have been better to express it as homesickness.

Is your DH going to be able to work in the UK given post Brexit immigration rules? That might be a struggle.

I know that I couldn’t live abroad as I get homesick when I go away for a week.
I like watching the Wanted Down Under programmes, but I do wonder how many of them will want to come back eventually, yet to their children/grandchildren it is home.

Perfectly valid to feel that way (I think you know that really).

As a PP said, they were probably feeling defensive as you said you didn't like their home. They were also probably just trying to offer helpful suggestions. But if you know you don't like it there, that's valid.

I can’t help wondering how your language skills are. After five years I’d have thought you’d be able to follow a conversation comfortably. Did you avoid talking to people because you weren’t confident?

YANBU to say it doesn’t feel like home if it doesn’t feel like home. I’ve spent the last 15 years living in different countries (none my home country), and have found that some places never feel like home whereas others suit me down to the ground. I was never a fan of where I grew up and couldn’t wait to leave. I really loved the years we spent in the UK; I had my children there and feel a lot of nostalgia for that time. Asia was hard but I would go back. I never really got on with the Czech Republic and was horribly homesick there. We live in another country on the continent now and I actually really like it. We’ve bought a house, DH has a great job, we have a good network of friends, and our kids go to the local school and speak the languages. We are up for citizenship this year and will happily apply. However, I know people whose life situations are similar to my own here and they absolutely hate it, so it’s not just situational or a matter of ‘trying’.

I honestly think so much just depends on your temperament and natural inclinations. 5 years is a good length of time to give something a go. DH and I are also a dual nationality couple, and I think with that comes the unfortunate side effect that one of you will always be away from home, so it’s important to find a place where you both feel you can happily settle in. It sounds like Germany is not that for you and the UK is not that for him. Are there alternatives to the UK that you both might enjoy where you would also feel more at home?

Oh I totally get this. I've been here 4.5 years and I feel exactly the same. Except my husband who is also a native speaker never wants to go back to the UK.
I just don't belong here and I miss my family. I don't want to stay here but I'm trapped. If your DH is willing to move back then go for it.

@FangsForTheMemory

I can’t help wondering how your language skills are. After five years I’d have thought you’d be able to follow a conversation comfortably. Did you avoid talking to people because you weren’t confident?

I think that’s a fair question.

@Moomoolandmoomooland

Surely the person you need to be having this discussion with is your DH? You've already moved abroad twice for his work when you don't want to. It's time to start advocating for yourself in your relationship.

Maybe she shouldn't have married a Swiss man if she didn't want to leave her home shores.

Of course you are.
However, launching into it on a German forum probably was only ever going to go one way! It's called knowing your audience.

@MrsBrunch

This is why I would never want to live abroad unless I was fluent in the language. I think I would also feel lonely like you do OP.

I can't understand how anyone could live in another country for 5 years and still not be fairly fluent in the spoken language, you really have to make an effort. When we lived in Germany though in a British environment, ie military, I made a great effort to absorb the language and got to the stage where I would read something without realising that I was reading German.

As a German I can only say I don't like certain parts of Germany at all. I survived 3 years Bavaria and have absolutely no desire of living there ever again. Now, give me Northern Germany and we can talk. On the other hand I know enough people from other parts in Germany who hate the Northerners.

I think the issue is your language barriers, Germans can be patient but if you still struggle after 5 years I think the patience is wearing low.

It may also depends where you live. A friend coming back after 19 years abroad found it difficult in a rural location with not a lot of other foreigners but was happier in a town with more ex-pats or pther people from abroad being there due to a large international employer.

@hansgrueber
I guess learning to speak another language well is HARD, no matter if you live there or not. From my observations you can live in foreign country X for 20 years but the only people who will learn to speak well are those who are Very Motivated to do so. The “you’ll pick things up when you get there” mentality doesn’t work. At some point you’ve got to put the hours into boring old study - probably at least a couple of thousand of them.

Her DH agreed to settle in the UK.

I have a good friend who moved to Germany about 5 years ago (her husband is German) and despite learning German, having lots of his family close by who all speak fluent English etc. she still hates it. They're moving back to her home country this year. Some places you just never 'settle'.

I totally get what you say about how tiring speaking another language can be. We lived in the Netherlands for a similar period. Every interaction had to be thought through in advance in case conversation veered off piste.

Of course you are allowed to dislike certain things.

However, it's to be expected that people are going to be very protective of their own country and fellow nationals. So perhaps try and be more diplomatic next time when expressing your reasons to leave.

TBH if i were her DH I'd probably hesitate about going back to UK.

OP how are your children? Assuming if they're at Grundschule they are ok with German?

Of course you are allowed, but it was insensitive to criticise their home country.

You can dislike anything you like but I’m not sure what response you were expecting in this situation.

I wonder if this is indicative of general gaucherie which would make all socialising difficult.

As would not learning the language. It’s hard to believe that after 5 years in a country you’re still at a level where conversing is hard.

But then, some people just don’t like abroad.

I think they were rude and unsympathetic - though maybe allowing for cultural differences they didn’t mean to be.

I live in a big university city and have had several non-British friends who’ve been here for a while then left. Many have said they hate the weather, find British culture hard to understand, get tired of not speaking their own language, don’t like the food etc - these things weren’t aimed at me and I wasn’t offended.

I’ve lived abroad too and it can be hard. I even still miss the county where I grew up and dream of moving back one day!

I moved to the UK many years ago and never really "liked" it

Living here (complicated story) was always made easier by the simplicity with which you could go to a selection of different countries, and how affordable/attainable it was. The plague has obviously put an end to that for a while which has made this place seem less tolerable. I think plague time is a bad time for major decisions such as this

Knowing yourself and what you want is one of the greatest strengths a person can have, practically a superpower. So many people don't know themselves well at all and spend a lifetime being blown by the wind of other people's preferences.

People who truly know what they want are usually very calm and self-contained about it and just get on with furthering their own goals though. They don't give enough of themselves to strangers, to care what those strangers think of them.

So it sounds to me as though you are transitioning from a people-pleaser to someone whose motivation comes from within. You're stuck in your old habits and finding the process a bit uncomfortable.

(But honestly, duh, you go on a German parenting forum, say you don't like living there, admit that language is a problem and that you've barely made any attempt to integrate. What did you expect them to say?)

Imagine being from another country and standing at the school gates at an English school going, ‘God, I hate England’. Everyone would be saying, ‘well, fuck off back home then’. That’s basically what you did. You insulted them. It’s fine not to like somewhere but don’t rub peoples noses in it.

@hansgrueber I know plenty of British people with foreign spouses including Germans, whose spouses are happy to live in the UK. However they will only live in some parts of the UK e.g. certain parts of cities and large towns where they feel comfortable.