To be put off dating a man who doesn’t drive

[TrunkintheJunk]

Recently started online dating. Been talking to someone who seems really nice. We’re arranging to go for a walk somewhere next week.
Thing is, he doesn’t drive. He’s 39 but just ‘never got around to learning’.
Am I a dick for being put off by this??

Given you’ve said he lives rurally, then no I wouldn’t be interested.

He must be happy being dependent on others and that is a very unattractive trait to me.

I would suspect he might be tight with his money as well.

And does he never want to get out and explore the country? Or go and buy a piece of furniture?

Only caveat would be if there’s a medical reason. And if he’s amazing in every other way.

Well depends if he said "I don't drive, see you there" or "I don't drive, so I'll need a lift and for you to tie my shoe laces when we arrive" really.

Despite the usual delightful assumptions made on this thread about non drivers (it's been at least a month since we were all put back in our box and patronised after all) lack of driving license doesn't automatically mean anything other than he doesn't have a licence to drive a car.
It doesn't mean he's automatically an overgrown child who can't do anything, that a lack of driving license means he expects everyone else to run around after him. I know plenty of men who do have a driving license that are like that too looking at you dearest brother he's got the sainted license, mummy keeps paying for the cars he likes to drive like a twat and wreck.

But ultimately if it's that important to you to be with someone who drives, for your own reasons, then it's a non starter and yanbu. If it's because you've made assumptions like have been made here based on nothing but a lack of driving license, then you are being u.

I wouldn't call a walking holiday in the Lake District or Scottish Highlands a "driving holiday" but both are much more varied and easier by car. Especially if the weather is such that you need to do something "not walking" for a day... There's also avoiding the stress of missing the last bus back to base due to navigational fails! You can also use a car to get to less honeypot type beaches rather than being limited to those on or walkable from public transport if that's your thing.

Camping is much more pleasant with a car to bring fripperies like a big tent and an airbed, plus you have more choice of campsite.

I wouldn't ever say that driving is the sole aim of any holiday but driving has massively improved our walking holiday experience.

@GoldenOmber

And hiring a car on holiday, as many people do, doesn't turn it into a "driving holiday" either. Hiring a car to visit certain beauty spots inaccessible by public transport in eg Tenerife isn't exactly akin to driving Route 66 in America!

Hire whatever cars you like on holiday, go wherever you like! All I'm saying is that it's a bit odd to see the combination of "I could never date a non-driver, they'd expect you to be their taxi service" with "I fully expect any partner I have to do a certain minimum amount of driving every year with me sat in the passenger seat."

So you think the non-drivers should be left behind in the hotel?

Or should they benefit from being chauffered around?

I used to live in The Netherlands, one of the most public transport, car-free countries in the world. Lots of people don't drive (the awful date I described with the non-driver happened there). What happens in practice is that you end up constantly being asked to be the driver, and you feel put upon and end up devoting an entire day out of your weekend to ferry someone or a group of people somewhere. Or you end up being the one who can't drink because you've gone to a party in Amsterdam and although the public transport is good, its really inconvenient to get back to Amersfoort at 3am on it. But then you become some sort of co-opted designated person with a car. Or if someone needs to move house, you end up doing it for them.

Fortunately, when most people grow up, they either hire cars or buy cars, but you also get plenty of people like my date who basically want to live a student lifestyle for the rest of their lives, along with the limitations it can cause.

I'm an excellent cyclist, I cycled into my work every day, even in the snow. But having a car affords you so much modern luxury of being able to go wherever you like, independently. Its a modern invention that our ancestors didn't have access to, so to me its seems a shame not to benefit from its existence by sticking your head in the sand.

So you think the non-drivers should be left behind in the hotel?
Or should they benefit from being chauffered around?

How do you think non-drivers usually manage on our holidays? Do you think we all sit around staring mournfully out of the hotel window hoping a handsome driver will come along and save us? Do you think we don't go on holidays at all?

Once again, I really honestly genuinely do not care where and how you choose to go on holiday. But it is still both odd and darkly amusing to see the same people who would like a partner to drive them around some of the time, being scathing and sneering about non-drivers because they're convinced that any non-driver would "expect me to chauffeur them around".

I mean: I don't expect my DH to ever drive me anywhere. Ever ever. No chauffeuring, no taxi-ing, not on holidays or shopping or school runs or trips to Ikea, there is zero amount of time when I ever expect to be sat in the passenger seat while he is driving.

Plenty of people do expect their partners to drive them to places, and feel this is a fair deal because they in turn will drive them to partners to places too.

Both of those arrangements are fine, everyone's happy in their own domestic arrangement. Still, from the perspective of someone in my position, it is a bit weird to see people in the second group say "oooh you wouldn't want to date a non-driver, they'd expect you to drive them around."

Having a license and having a car are two different things. A lot of the examples go more towards owning a car than being able to drive. Sometimes due to life situation car might not be a good investment. Yeah, I'd love to very now and then hop into my car but investing fuckton towards a car might just not make sense.

Also someone not having a license at the moment does not mean that automatically the one with the license is always shauffeuring the future kids. Maybe once the licence becomes a necessity they will do something about it? Not driving unusually related to lifestyle and that can be changed once the lifestyle changes.

If the nondriver has successfully managed to live their lives without a license and car this time, why would this suddenly change?
I think a lot of things here are blamed on the lack of car/license when it is about difference in personality and preferences that are the actual deal breakers. Someone expecting rides around is in general just an ass. Being a driver wouldn't change that.

There's a big difference IMO between someone who doesn't drive because its not an essential activity for them to run their life, and someone who doesn't drive because they expect other people to drive them around. It would become obvious pretty early on which type of person he is
Also this.

There's a big difference IMO between someone who doesn't drive because its not an essential activity for them to run their life, and someone who doesn't drive because they expect other people to drive them around. It would become obvious pretty early on which type of person he is

This!

I don’t drive. I had a learners permit at 16?that I used maybe once before it expired. I grew up in an area with great public transport, went to uni in a major city where a car was a bloody luxury because parking was so high, and then moved to the U.K. and once again another area where a car wasn’t necessary. Where I also live a car isn’t necessary and I have two children. I’ve taken them all over the place with just my legs, the pram, and public transport. My commute is better by public transport because there is limited to no parking where I work and I would still need to take a bus if I did have a car. My children go to nursery and school across the street from each other (7 min walk), there’s a secondary (10 min walk), five shops to get groceries, two pharmacies, buses and trains to London and Oxford, post box and post office, and the town centre, all under 25 minutes walk away. Why have added expenses just to drive when it’s not necessary? I was in a car maybe 1-3 times a month before the pandemic and it is pretty much the same now. The money saved from me not driving is worth it vs wasting money on something I rarely use and wouldn’t of I had it.

But it is still both odd and darkly amusing to see the same people who would like a partner to drive them around some of the time, being scathing and sneering about non-drivers because they're convinced that any non-driver would "expect me to chauffeur them around".

Well, it would be a strange relationship if one partner drove, the other didn't, but the driver refused to take the non driver anywhere, and the non driver didn't expect it either. You really would never expect to be taken anywhere if your partner drove and you didn't?

As before, you are failing to see the difference between sharing a load and never participating in said load at all. It might be because you insist on seeing it as "being chauffeured around" rather than "sharing a tiring, time consuming duty that most people do need to get done". It is not just partner passengers: it includes food shopping, medical appointments, play dates, collection from airports at 4am and all sorts of other things. You may be able to deal with all those things carless, but surely you can see why it's not as simple as "being chauffeured around"? And why someone might start to feel resentful and taken advantage of if they had to do it all alone when their partner could learn to help them, and won't?

Doesn't drive or can't drive as in never learned ? Hmmm a no from me, and living rurally how does that work? I always thought I didn't want to drive, but it's really impractical.

This is a disheartening read as the parent of a child who will never be able to drive. They are holding out hope and I can’t quite bring myself to break it to them. Honestly missing out on relationships will be another blow they don’t see coming.

I would be asking why. Driving to me is an essential skill

To be fair, I have a friend who has a driver's licence but in the 4 times I've been in her car she almost killed us 3 times. So she can't actually drive but is legally allowed to do so!

Well, it would be a strange relationship if one partner drove, the other didn't, but the driver refused to take the non driver anywhere, and the non driver didn't expect it either. You really would never expect to be taken anywhere if your partner drove and you didn't?

Yes, he can drive and I do not expect to be taken anywhere. We live somewhere that we don't need to rely on a car, because obviously otherwise I'd be pretty restricted in what I could or couldn't do.

It might be because you insist on seeing it as "being chauffeured around" rather than "sharing a tiring, time consuming duty that most people do need to get done".

But, again, you choose to live your life in a way that requires you to do the driving or someone to do the driving for you. That's fine, that's a tradeoff you have made for other things, up to you. But 'the driving' is not like 'the cleaning' or 'the food shopping' - it's something that other people, who have made different tradeoffs either through choice or necessity, can manage without.

You expect your partner to do 50% of 'the driving'. I expect my partner to do 0% of 'the driving'. Either way is fine, it's up to whatever works for you, but it remains odd to hear "I could never date a non-driver, they'd expect me to do the driving!"

it remains odd to hear "I could never date a non-driver, they'd expect me to do the driving!"

If you think it is odd to want your life partner to match your effort for a crucial daily skill that is tiring and time consuming, I guess you will just have to accept that a lot of people - men, women, straight, gay - are odd. As a non driver, you can never be put to this test, which is handy.

As an aside, I'm sorry, but I simply do not believe that you have a driver as your life partner, who has a car, and never ever expect them to do any driving for you (not the same as "never expect to be taken anywhere", which I notice is STILL how you see driving. It encompasses far more than that.). You'll deny it fiercely, I know, and obviously I can't prove it, but I don't believe it. Unless maybe you don't live together, and even then I find it hard to believe that he never uses his car to meet you or do anything that benefits you.

As an aside, I'm sorry, but I simply do not believe that you have a driver as your life partner, who has a car, and never ever expect them to do any driving for you (not the same as "never expect to be taken anywhere", which I notice is STILL how you see driving. It encompasses far more than that.). You'll deny it fiercely, I know, and obviously I can't prove it, but I don't believe it. Unless maybe you don't live together, and even then I find it hard to believe that he never uses his car to meet you or do anything that benefits you.

I KNOW I'm TERRIBLE and also probably a liar. Us non-drivers are duplicitous spongers AND lie to people on Mumsnet about how we get to Ikea, tut tut tut!

My DH doesn't have a car. Like I said above, we live somewhere that we don't need a car, because - as a non-driver - I prefer to live somewhere that I can actually get around. I'm sure you can appreciate why this might be the case? But if you prefer to believe that I instead choose to live somewhere that does need a car despite being unable to drive one myself, and rely on my DH to drive me to places, and lie on Mumsnet about it for ??reasons??? while expecting my DH to do all this apparently compulsory driving - then on you go, pet.

It wouldn't bother me so much though I'm not a big driver myself. I have a licence I've just never owned a car. I think people brought up in cities are less likely to learn so maybe it's just his background, although you said he lives rurally (and has always done?).

@Unsuremover

This is a disheartening read as the parent of a child who will never be able to drive. They are holding out hope and I can’t quite bring myself to break it to them. Honestly missing out on relationships will be another blow they don’t see coming.

Tbh I've never faced the attitudes irl like they're presented here. I know someone will be along shortly to tell me that's because people are too polite or because I'm so self absorbed I don't notice, but in the main it's because I just get on with my life and take responsibility for getting myself around like most people do, it doesn't come up because it's not the huge issue some people like to pretend it is, therefore there's nothing to actually talk about. I personally wouldn't consider someone who made a snap judgement about me not driving, because they're too closed minded to realise that having a driving license doesn't automatically mean you're a super duper independent person, And not having a driving license means you can't possibly arrange your life around that.

If you think it is odd to want your life partner to match your effort for a crucial daily skill that is tiring and time consuming

Come on, it's quite easy to arrange your life so that driving doesn't need to be a daily, 'tiring' activity. I'm speaking from the 'other side', my OH doesn't drive.

YANBU because in dating you get to set the standards.

I'm quite happy to have married someone who can't drive and we've built our lives accordingly. Yes, some things require more planning and time to do and I'm aware that not everywhere makes it possible for driving to be much of a choice and I agree it is a very useful skill that as a society we benefit from many people having (if maybe not as many as there are) - but somehow we've managed even to raise four children with all their activities without either of us driving.

If someone asks me why I don't drive, I honestly say that I tried for several months and decided it wasn't for me. I went through all the lessons and time required by the state I was in at the time, including hours of motorway driving, and still hated it, still couldn't stop thinking about how I could kill someone with just a slight mistake, and so chose not to move forward to getting a license well before I was medically unable to drive. Maybe I just figured out before I got a diagnosis that it was a terrible idea for me to be behind the wheel.

Thankfully I've never had it in person, but if I got the nasty sweeping generalizations about those who don't drive as always shows up in these threads, they probably wouldn't know me long enough to find out about how my disabilities mean I can't drive - I don't need their pity along with their disdain.

I think that it quite judgemental

It is not just partner passengers: it includes food shopping, medical appointments, play dates, collection from airports at 4am and all sorts of other things.

Which funny enough many non-drivers can do without needing their partner to drive them. There are also these things called taxis for collections especially for the airport.

Depends where he's from... many of my friends who grew up and still live in London don't drive because the public transport is good enough and usually the faster/more environmentally friendly option. Would not be put off if a Londoner/in another big city. Would be put off if in a rural place with few public transport connections.

@phoenixrosehere

It is not just partner passengers: it includes food shopping, medical appointments, play dates, collection from airports at 4am and all sorts of other things.

Which funny enough many non-drivers can do without needing their partner to drive them. There are also these things called taxis for collections especially for the airport.

And it's common for such couples to rely on taxis and public transport for all these things when the driver is available because they absolutely wouldn't dream of ever expecting the driver to do any driving that benefits them?

Sounds like even more of a reason not to date a non driver. What a weird set up.

Taxis require drivers too, incidentally. Someone is having to drive...

I'd be put off.
I implies a degree of helplessness to me. I'm sure lots will disagree though.
Not having a car and using public transport for environmental reasons are a good thing imo.
Choosing to not drive = good.
Being unable to drive = bad.
It's a basic life skill, like cooking.