Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists

[FindTheTruth]

Am I being unreasonable to think that Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4180758-MOJ-Prison-Policy-JR-TODAY

Some posts in this thread:
Page7 @teawamutu**
Women have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists.



I mean. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck?
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Page 8 @ArabellaScott**

Locking women in a place they cannot escape from with intact male rapists.

It's like the worst dystopian fiction you've ever read.

And the UK govt okayed it.
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Page 11 @KeepPrisonsSingleSex**
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your support and interest for this very important case.
Live tweeted from court today and will attend remotely and live tweet again tomorrow.

The points that I took away from today's proceedings are as follows:



1. The 'old' policy on allocation of transgender prisoners (pre Karen White) allowed a degree of discretion re allocation of trans prisoners, including those with a GRC. The new & current one (at least in respect of TW with GRC) does not. (My take is that this now puts women at increased risk, whereas the revised policy should have protected women.)



1. Secretary of State for Justice when formulating the new policy post-Karen White stated that the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act do not apply to prisons. (My take is that if women's prisons are not a definitive example of a single-sex space, then what is?)



1. Before the new policy rolled out there was a 'consultation' with stakeholders including Fair Play and the Centre for Crime and Justice Studied. But evidence presented in court shows Minister had already agreed the new policy predicated on the opinion that single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Therefore this was not in fact a consultation, and none took place. The interests of women in prison were not represented. The evidence presented at that time by FPFW & CCJS was not considered: the decision had been made.



1. I am concerned that in November 2020, Lucy Frazer (Minister for Prisons) re-affirmed the correctness of the policy on allocation of transgender prisoners. This supports the previous Ministerial view that EA single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Yet in September 2020 Liz Truss gave clear statement affirming government commitment to single-sex spaces. Does this commitment extend to prisons or not? This is an important question that government needs to answer.

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Page 11 @ChazsBrilliantAttitude**
I was thinking of a prisons’ version of the Staniland question



“If John Warboys obtained a GRC should they be moved to a woman’s prison?”
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AIBU?
So ….are we hateful bigots on the women’s rights board for thinking Women shouldn’t be locked up with intact male rapists?

@AfternoonToffee

I once had a discussion with someone [American]* who claimed that it was perfectly ok for Karen White to be in the female estate as women rape too. It was being used as a gotcha to show how horribly transphobic I was being.

*Legal differences with regards to rape.

Ugh.

Quite apart from rape by a woman not being possible in this country, due to it necessitating a penis, ninety eight percent of the time, any sex offence will have been committed by a male, not a female.

Many people really do not understand quite how sex specific sex offences are. Or violent crime in general.

If every time a violent crime, or sex offence was reported in the paper, the words male violence were used, it would sink in pretty quickly.

100% agree OP. It's disgusting and a travesty.

I think if more of the general public knew the situation, they would be horrified. Many seem entirely unaware that a penis-retaining male bodied person can be and have been incarcerated in female prisons.
Keep shining the light.

Funny how nobody is accusing us of being TERFy bigoted transphobes for once.

THIS is what we've been on about for the past however-many years on the FWR boards. Now do people see?

@SenecaTrewe

Funny how nobody is accusing us of being TERFy bigoted transphobes for once.

THIS is what we've been on about for the past however-many years on the FWR boards. Now do people see?

Not even dear Jolyon Maugham. Interesting.

And the 2% who think it’s ok?

Well they haven't presented any compelling arguments on the thread so methinks they don't have one.

It doesn't have ti be compelling to us though. It just has to be good enough to expand on and to justify messing up in the first place:(

Funny how nobody is accusing us of being TERFy bigoted transphobes for once.

Give it time.

@Soundbyte

Funny how nobody is accusing us of being TERFy bigoted transphobes for once.

Give it time.

Aaaaaannnnd ... a campaign over on Twitter starts up to attack MN for being 'transphobic'. Amazing. I see you, Owen Jones. Never miss a chance to get the boot in, do you?

Aaaaaannnnd ... a campaign over on Twitter starts up to attack MN for being 'transphobic'. Amazing. I see you, Owen Jones. Never miss a chance to get the boot in, do you?

I just saw that Owen Jones tweet earlier. It's a quote tweet of a reply from Mumsnet to our friend Mimmymum! He doesn't know what he is on about, he just can't resist an opportunity to join in with the Mumsnet are awful chants.

Still, good to know he thinks that women should be locked up with a male rapist though, cheers Owen!

Yet not one mention of intact TW in women’s prisons in their tweets. I wonder why. Why are they not willing to have a sensible discussion on the interaction of rights.

twitter.com/WhatTheTrans/status/1363055992372617216

And we see this too! Wonder if MNHQ will ever just stop responding to Helen!

The dwindling places where we can freely discuss women' rights without being cancelled are very few indeed. And you won't see ongoing injustice stories like this in the mainstream media until they absolutely have to report it (like a judgement / change in law) and even then they put a spin on it and only 40% of the story is about women. Men like Owen Jones call the alternative point of view to his 'hateful'. and when he does this on twitter, people get threats - especially women. Rosie Duffield got threats after he trolled her.

MN and other women owned platforms are the few places you can find out what is actually going on. The OJs of this world don't want the truth about things like prisons out in the world.

Platforms who no-platform women:

1. Reddit
2. Twitter
3. Amazon / Audible
4. Facebook groups
5. 'LGBT' groups

Media who no-platform women

1. The independent
2. The Guardian
3. BBC
4. Pink News

I see I'm supposed to be boycotting Bird's Eye, as an MNer, according to someone who was connected to a courtcase against a transwoman for transphobia? All this is a bit before my time. Is it true I need to boycott Bird's Eye?

I think BE was in regards to the Mumsnet Rated labels, someone complained to them about the dreadful experience they had had when looking in a supermarket freezer and seeing Mumsnet on the product had been so terribly terribly bad and they wrote to the Captain to make sure they knew how hateful we all are. The Captain replied along the lines of "There will be appearing no more" but that was more likely as that particular campaign had ended.

So maybe it is us that should or them, who knows anymore.

Hey, I know you're watching.

"Prosecco Stormfront" is still racist and still appropriation. You may call MN that, but it says far more about you than it does MN. And I wish I had been informed you kept trying to propagate that as a nickname years ago. It would have made me rethink my casual presumption that "trans rights" was the "right side of history".

YANBU. The tacit and explicit approval politicians of all colours have given to this policy sickens me. The world hates women, does not see our oppression and expects us all to be treated like crap, all to collect woke points. Vulnerable women are trampled on all their lives.

I absolutely despair.

Aaaaaannnnd ... a campaign over on Twitter starts up to attack MN for being 'transphobic'. Amazing. I see you, Owen Jones. Never miss a chance to get the boot in, do you?

See my surprised face.

A link to the Feminist Chat thread about the judicial review by a female prisoner alleging she was sexually assaulted due to the MoJ trans policy, I'm sure one has been posted but as the court case is happening now it's all very fast moving on both threads. Contains links to live tweeting of this important case.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4180758-MOJ-Prison-Policy-JR-TODAY

I had forgotten about the Birds Eye thing...

'Under Bird's Eye' was so funny!

Mimmymum does important public service on Twitter bringing people over here to see what the fuss is about. Owen is just a useful idiot. Keep up the good work both!

A) MOJ have a blanket policy not to put trans men in the male prison estate because they can't keep them safe. Ok got it biological woman can’t be kept safe in the prison estate along side biological males. No need to risk assess the impact of the woman on the men.

B) MOJ blanket policy to put transwomen with a GRC in the female prison estate because um biological men are not at risk from biological women I presume?

But shouldn’t there be a risk assessment looking at the impact on the women? Because A?

How is it possible to not recognise that you can’t do A and do B because you are contradicting your own conclusions?

@BettyFilous

Mimmymum does important public service on Twitter bringing people over here to see what the fuss is about. Owen is just a useful idiot. Keep up the good work both!

Mimmybirthingparent, surely?