Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists

[FindTheTruth]

Am I being unreasonable to think that Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4180758-MOJ-Prison-Policy-JR-TODAY

Some posts in this thread:
Page7 @teawamutu**
Women have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists.



I mean. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck?
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Page 8 @ArabellaScott**

Locking women in a place they cannot escape from with intact male rapists.

It's like the worst dystopian fiction you've ever read.

And the UK govt okayed it.
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Page 11 @KeepPrisonsSingleSex**
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your support and interest for this very important case.
Live tweeted from court today and will attend remotely and live tweet again tomorrow.

The points that I took away from today's proceedings are as follows:



1. The 'old' policy on allocation of transgender prisoners (pre Karen White) allowed a degree of discretion re allocation of trans prisoners, including those with a GRC. The new & current one (at least in respect of TW with GRC) does not. (My take is that this now puts women at increased risk, whereas the revised policy should have protected women.)



1. Secretary of State for Justice when formulating the new policy post-Karen White stated that the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act do not apply to prisons. (My take is that if women's prisons are not a definitive example of a single-sex space, then what is?)



1. Before the new policy rolled out there was a 'consultation' with stakeholders including Fair Play and the Centre for Crime and Justice Studied. But evidence presented in court shows Minister had already agreed the new policy predicated on the opinion that single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Therefore this was not in fact a consultation, and none took place. The interests of women in prison were not represented. The evidence presented at that time by FPFW & CCJS was not considered: the decision had been made.



1. I am concerned that in November 2020, Lucy Frazer (Minister for Prisons) re-affirmed the correctness of the policy on allocation of transgender prisoners. This supports the previous Ministerial view that EA single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Yet in September 2020 Liz Truss gave clear statement affirming government commitment to single-sex spaces. Does this commitment extend to prisons or not? This is an important question that government needs to answer.

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Page 11 @ChazsBrilliantAttitude**
I was thinking of a prisons’ version of the Staniland question



“If John Warboys obtained a GRC should they be moved to a woman’s prison?”
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AIBU?
So ….are we hateful bigots on the women’s rights board for thinking Women shouldn’t be locked up with intact male rapists?

@2BDIs

Who on earth are the 3% who think vulnerable woman should be confined with men? Shame on you 3%. I appreciate the women are in prison as they are criminals and have wronged society it some way but come on, no one deserves that fear of being locked up with known male rapists

I am hoping they pressed being unreasonable thinking it meant the policy is not reasonable. Hoping we don't really have sadists in our midst.

Very few women in prison have wronged society by humane measures . Majority are short sentences for very minor crimes such as non payment of fines, not attending probation, not attending every appointment on drug treatment orders etc

@InvisibleDragon

I just want to put this here, to really spell out more of the problem: www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-42221629

When the BBC investigated thus issue, they found that there were 125 transgender prisoners, of whom 60 had convictions for sexual offences, including 27 with a conviction of rape.

So very nearly half of transgender inmates are convicted sex offenders, compared with 19% of the prison population as a whole.

To me, that clearly suggests that allowing trans inmates to be housed in the female prison estate provides a pathway that can be deliberately exploited by men who wish to access vulnerable women.

I tried to explain this to the Liberal Democrats. It's an issue that really bothers me.

They DGAF.

I am now an ex-Liberal Democrat. No idea who to vote for next time.

The 3% will be the "moral panic" brigade. People who are so privileged that they can afford to turn a blind eye to things that affect less privileged people, and indulge in luxury beliefs safe in the knowledge that they will never have to suffer the consequences of their avowed beliefs.

How is it that it’s come to this? That today, in the U.K., women are literally locked up with male rapists and this is sanctioned by the government. It’s like my worst nightmare come true.

Everyone should read the first post on this thread carefully. CatNamedEaster spells out the steps whereby this happens.

Is anyone working on some big expose of the insidious damage that Stonewall are doing inside corporations, government depts and schools? Has a journalist already done this? The various things that I’ve read as a result of Freedom of Information requests re Stonewall are truly chilling.

But back to the prisons - it’s incredible that the Ministry of Justice are incorrectly applying the Equality Act 2010 single sex exceptions. (I.e wilfully disregarding it.) Let that sink in - The. Ministry. Of. Justice.

The Judicial Review for this insane policy continues today.

twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons

Live-tweeted from court yesterday, I hope will be doing so today.

It's hard to believe. I mean, it's clearly happening. Yet still, strangely hard to process it's real. Dystopia.

YANBU for many reasons already clearly outlined by posters.

As an aside I’m also interested in this point about those in charge making decisions before the consultation. ‘Democratic’ institutions and practices are now nothing more than a performative sop to the masses.

How people cannot see that a man claiming to be trans so he can go into a women’s prion is a narcissist and is getting pleasure from bending the system to their will I will never understand. It’s like the people making the decisions have never lived in the real world.

This is last year's list

Ministry of justice is no 5 of the stonewall top 100 employers..

@MrsBrunch

Rapes are being recorded as female crimes. As are all assaults and other offences committed by transwomen.

As a result female crime, especially violent crime or sexual assault, is on a sharp rise.

Except it's not us is it.

#thesearenotourcrimes

Well said mrsbunch

findthetruth YANBU obviously...well you’d think it would be obvious

How did the MOJ decide that the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 that allow for the exclusion of TW did not apply to prisons? It’s the one place where women literally cannot escape.

When the BBC investigated thus issue, they found that there were 125 transgender prisoners, of whom 60 had convictions for sexual offences, including 27 with a conviction of rape.

And afaik, these are the prisoners WITHOUT GRCs. The ones with GRCs automatically go into the female state and are not counted.

To the poster who seems to think there is careful evaluation- the number of prisoners that have been ‘carefully evaluated’, put into the female estate and subsequently raped or sexually assaulted women demonstrates that the ‘careful evaluation’ is so drastically not fit for purpose that it is criminal.

We need to fix the men.

No, they need to fix themselves.

Women are sick and tired of clearing up the mess left by men.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jesus Christ. Where is your empathy?! And no, they’re not all hardened ‘Shirley from Eastenders’ criminal types (not that that would make it any better. Some women are in prison for not paying the TV licence, but yeah, a bit of corrective rape will make them not watch the TV when they can’t afford to any more. I can’t say what I think about you otherwise I would be deleted.

jesus fucking christ - did I just read someone imply rape is an OK punishment for women in prison?

From the prison reform trust

Across the UK, around 12,000 women are imprisoned each year.

Although women are less than 5% of those in prison, they account for over 19% of self harm incidents, an indication of the traumatic impact of imprisonment on many.

Women entering prison are more likely to have been imprisoned for non-violent offences.

Women in prison are highly likely to be victims as well as offenders. Over half the women in prison report having suffered domestic violence with 53% of women reporting having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse as a child.

Many of them have dependent children - an estimated 17,000 children are separated from their mothers by imprisonment every year.

Isn’t the issue similar to when TW compete in women’s sport though? Even if they’ve had their penis surgically removed, they will still have a man’s muscle strength and frame with which to bully and intimidate biologically female prisoners. TW should be housed completely separately to biological women with no exceptions.

Oh thank goodness that disgusting post of @TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe’s has been deleted.

Interesting and well thought out idea &Cunt! Let’s put even more rapists in women’s prisons. That would be an excellent deterrent.

Fml 🙄

Reply was to Anna