Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists

[FindTheTruth]

Am I being unreasonable to think that Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4180758-MOJ-Prison-Policy-JR-TODAY

Some posts in this thread:
Page7 @teawamutu**
Women have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists.



I mean. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck?
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Page 8 @ArabellaScott**

Locking women in a place they cannot escape from with intact male rapists.

It's like the worst dystopian fiction you've ever read.

And the UK govt okayed it.
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Page 11 @KeepPrisonsSingleSex**
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your support and interest for this very important case.
Live tweeted from court today and will attend remotely and live tweet again tomorrow.

The points that I took away from today's proceedings are as follows:



1. The 'old' policy on allocation of transgender prisoners (pre Karen White) allowed a degree of discretion re allocation of trans prisoners, including those with a GRC. The new & current one (at least in respect of TW with GRC) does not. (My take is that this now puts women at increased risk, whereas the revised policy should have protected women.)



1. Secretary of State for Justice when formulating the new policy post-Karen White stated that the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act do not apply to prisons. (My take is that if women's prisons are not a definitive example of a single-sex space, then what is?)



1. Before the new policy rolled out there was a 'consultation' with stakeholders including Fair Play and the Centre for Crime and Justice Studied. But evidence presented in court shows Minister had already agreed the new policy predicated on the opinion that single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Therefore this was not in fact a consultation, and none took place. The interests of women in prison were not represented. The evidence presented at that time by FPFW & CCJS was not considered: the decision had been made.



1. I am concerned that in November 2020, Lucy Frazer (Minister for Prisons) re-affirmed the correctness of the policy on allocation of transgender prisoners. This supports the previous Ministerial view that EA single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Yet in September 2020 Liz Truss gave clear statement affirming government commitment to single-sex spaces. Does this commitment extend to prisons or not? This is an important question that government needs to answer.

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Page 11 @ChazsBrilliantAttitude**
I was thinking of a prisons’ version of the Staniland question



“If John Warboys obtained a GRC should they be moved to a woman’s prison?”
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AIBU?
So ….are we hateful bigots on the women’s rights board for thinking Women shouldn’t be locked up with intact male rapists?

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

How did the MOJ decide that the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 that allow for the exclusion of TW did not apply to prisons? It’s the one place where women literally cannot escape.

Stonewall told them so, presumably!

Ministry of justice is no 5 of the stonewall top 100 employers

AKA Ministry of justice is no 5 of the queer theory top 100 employers

1. Members are not allowed to criticise queer theory, even if the criticism is true.

2. critical thinking is an infectious disease and every effort is made to suppress it. Doubting members are encouraged to isolate themselves from outside influences and focus solely on the doctrine of queer theory.

3. Criticism is forbidden. People who contradict the group are viewed as persecutors and are often given labels like “anti,” and "phobic" and banned from public policy consultations. If one women's group slips through, there are anxious calls by the leader to the public body about keeping the members 'safe' from the nasty "anti" people.

4. If former LGBT members speak out, they are dismissed as bitter, angry, dishonest or evil. So impose de-platforming and shunning to shame former members and prevent them from infecting other members with the truth.

5. position themselves as the sole refuge from an evil outside world that is intent on their destruction. catastrophic thinking, and persecution complexes, continually tell T that they are at risk of suicide, they are hated and people want to harm them.

6. trap members in shame cycles by imposing abnormally strict codes of conduct (remove 'sex' from HR policies, policy and ignore the law), guilting members for their shortcomings in the champion index feedback report (see the FOI returns), and then positioning themselves as the unique remedy to the feelings of guilt which they themselves created

for the people assuming that they 'should keep out of trouble'. These are the most vulnerable women in society. Many are victims of domestic violence and abuse and end up in prison as a result of those things.
Bear in mind that miscarriages of justice occur. While we all think it is very unlikely that it could ever be us - it is not impossible.

Only 1 per cent of the almost 4,000 women in prison are there for violent offences, the data shows. On the other hand, around nine in 10 women prisoners carried out a minor crime, with around a third linked to shoplifting or theft.

Some 72 per cent of all prosecutions for TV licences were against women in 2018. In 2017, the offence constituted 30 per cent of all prosecutions against women – meaning it was the most common offence women were prosecuted for.

All prison moves for being transgender are at the discretion of the system and not taken lightly

I just don’t understand this. A prison carries out a risk assessment on a fully intact male who has been convicted of rape. How is it possible for that person to ever be risk assessed as safe to be put in with women? How was Karen White risk assessed as safe to be housed with women? The answer must be either that no risk assessment was actually carried out or that the person carrying out the risk assessment was completely incompetent.

sorry, link for the info above.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You must be kidding, right?

You can’t seriously think that women deserve to be raped as part of their punishment? Have you no empathy at all, do you think we’ll brought up women who’ve had good childhoods and opportunities are the ones who end up in prison because they’re rotten to the core or do you think it’s more likely to be the women who’ve already had pretty awful lives before that?

As vile as the deleted post was - if you look at it that way then this is what the government is endorsing. It’s adding rape to the list of punishment a woman receives by being imprisoned in the U.K. in 2021.
The government seemingly believes the same thing as that poster. Right?

Ahh I missed Scunthorpes contribution. I'm guessing they were being their usual goady self?

Signal - in the thread linked in the original post, the answers to your questions are all coming out. And more will come out today in Court.

The MoJ changed their policy so that if a male-born prisoner guilty of rape or sex crimes against women has a gender recognition certificate they AUTOMATICALLY go in a women's prison.

Might as well add stoning to death, burning at the stake...
Can't have women wanting rights.

Just awful. women just dont matter at all to these decision makers. Guess they are all men, centering mens wants over womens safety.

State sanctioned rape and assault shows how far we have regressed.

You are most definitely not being unreasonable.

Men do not belong in womens prisons. At all.

Why can't they have special units (in male prisons). Then they are separate from the men, but not a danger to women.

(And I suppose after they win Self ID, they want to be able to chose their prisons?)

The MoJ changed their policy so that if a male-born prisoner guilty of rape or sex crimes against women has a gender recognition certificate they AUTOMATICALLY go in a women's prison

Indeed. Best behave yourselves women. As the punishment will potentially be pretty severe if you don't. Seems the MoJ have absolved themselves of any responsibility to actually keep female prisoners safe.

The MoJ changed their policy so that if a male-born prisoner guilty of rape or sex crimes against women has a gender recognition certificate they AUTOMATICALLY go in a women's prison

But Karen White didn’t have a GRC did they? It’s mind blowing.

KPSS said "The 'old' policy on allocation of transgender prisoners (pre Karen White) allowed a degree of discretion re allocation of trans prisoners, including those with a GRC. The new & current one (at least in respect of TW with GRC) does not"

The MoJ changed their policy so that if a male-born prisoner guilty of rape or sex crimes against women has a gender recognition certificate they AUTOMATICALLY go in a women's prison

Still only got them 5th place

This is something you'd think you'd hear about happening in China, North Korea etc, but here it is happening in the UK. It makes me feel sick, scared for those poor women (many of whom have only failed to pay a bill) and so angry, I could scream.

Still only got them 5th place

Yes, it makes you wonder what the top four institutions are doing to shit all over women if forced incarceration with rapists only gets you to number 5.

Why can't they have special units (in male prisons)

They're building more women's prisons or places. MoJ plans to create 500 new UK prison places for women. There are currently around 3,100 women in prison; an additional 500 places is a 15% rise, which is equivalent to 11,000 places for the male population.

Someone on the MOJ JR thread speculated that the expansion is to accommodate all the self-ID trans prisoners. Many are asking why can't they expand the male prisons or build 3rd prisons? Probably because it goes against queer theory which says sex isn't real so ignore all sex based rights. And MoJ are signed up members of queer theory - no 5 of the top 100.

A wise woman on the Feminist Chat board pointed out that if the M oJ genuinely think that single sex exceptions don’t apply in prisons, why have they got male and female prisons at all?

If single sex exceptions genuinely don’t apply (complete rot but just supposing) it would be illegal for them to discriminate against all the other men. They can’t treat one group of men differently to the others.

I think this criminal lack of logic and consistency applied in policies so one group of people get special rights and privileges is indicative of the policies that all public service organisations have paid Stonewall to guide for them.

The CPS attempting to criminalise children in schools for ‘wrongthink’ (aka stating biological facts), partly dealt with by a recent Judicial Review brought by a girl from Oxfordshire, the police allowing criminals to self id as female if they choose and have their crimes reported as female crimes, the police making female police officers strip search a male prisoner if he chooses, Stonewall telling schools that they must allow teenage boys and girls to use the toilets if they choose even though there are already approx 200 rapes per year IN SCHOOLS ( not to mention countless sexual assaults).

Penny Mordaunt (Attorney General) stood up in Parliament on Monday and recited the Stonewall mantra ‘transwomen are women, transmen are men’ - this sort of ideologically driven, factually wrong, misleading statement is completely against the ministerial code and should be a resigning matter. Will the BBC be mentioning it, even in passing?? No, because the BBC believe the Stonewall mantra and report on the Stonewall version of the law.

The Stonewall version of the law is how we’ve ended up with male rapists in women’s prisons. ‘Acceptance without exception’ #nodebate.

The Stonewall version of the law is how we’ve ended up with male rapists in women’s prisons. ‘Acceptance without exception’ #nodebate.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

As revolting and sadistic as Scunthorpe's post was, I had no urge to report. Is a real shame it was deleted.

It was 100% in line with the MoJ policy and that of the Conservative, LibDems, Labour, Greens, SNP and WEP. The only ones who'd disagree with Scunny are SDP and Communist Party GB.
Why cover that up?

I hope that everyone is letting their MPs (and Lords and Baronesses) about this thread and the clear results of the poll. Any party that goes along with this cruelty will throw away untold number of votes.