Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists

[FindTheTruth]

Am I being unreasonable to think that Women shouldn’t have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4180758-MOJ-Prison-Policy-JR-TODAY

Some posts in this thread:
Page7 @teawamutu**
Women have to go to court to beg not to be locked up with intact male rapists.



I mean. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck?
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Page 8 @ArabellaScott**

Locking women in a place they cannot escape from with intact male rapists.

It's like the worst dystopian fiction you've ever read.

And the UK govt okayed it.
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Page 11 @KeepPrisonsSingleSex**
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your support and interest for this very important case.
Live tweeted from court today and will attend remotely and live tweet again tomorrow.

The points that I took away from today's proceedings are as follows:



1. The 'old' policy on allocation of transgender prisoners (pre Karen White) allowed a degree of discretion re allocation of trans prisoners, including those with a GRC. The new & current one (at least in respect of TW with GRC) does not. (My take is that this now puts women at increased risk, whereas the revised policy should have protected women.)



1. Secretary of State for Justice when formulating the new policy post-Karen White stated that the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act do not apply to prisons. (My take is that if women's prisons are not a definitive example of a single-sex space, then what is?)



1. Before the new policy rolled out there was a 'consultation' with stakeholders including Fair Play and the Centre for Crime and Justice Studied. But evidence presented in court shows Minister had already agreed the new policy predicated on the opinion that single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Therefore this was not in fact a consultation, and none took place. The interests of women in prison were not represented. The evidence presented at that time by FPFW & CCJS was not considered: the decision had been made.



1. I am concerned that in November 2020, Lucy Frazer (Minister for Prisons) re-affirmed the correctness of the policy on allocation of transgender prisoners. This supports the previous Ministerial view that EA single-sex exceptions do not apply to prisons. Yet in September 2020 Liz Truss gave clear statement affirming government commitment to single-sex spaces. Does this commitment extend to prisons or not? This is an important question that government needs to answer.

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Page 11 @ChazsBrilliantAttitude**
I was thinking of a prisons’ version of the Staniland question



“If John Warboys obtained a GRC should they be moved to a woman’s prison?”
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AIBU?
So ….are we hateful bigots on the women’s rights board for thinking Women shouldn’t be locked up with intact male rapists?

@NiceGerbil

There is also the point that tw in prison are, I suspect, treated with extreme care by the guards etc.

There's always the worry of being accused of transpobia etc. If they are seen to threat them any differently.

Hence the situations with tw exposing themselves etc and the staff not knowing what to do.

I know it's trivial in the face of things but not really- the gym competition. Where the women would do some challenges and could win a pack that would be awesome for the women in prison.

A TW smashed the female competition and won.

That person at some point met another TW in the prison and started a relationship. In the end I think they were both moved.

That's a seemingly little thing but it's not. Why have a gym challenge for a small but coveted prize? To get the women interested, exercising, friendly competition, something to do or cheer on.

The TW was obviously going to win from the off. That kind of wrecks the whole thing doesn't it?

And that tw didn't have to enter. The fact they did kind of sums it all up really.

I didn't know this about the tw exposing to guards and winning bym challenges. Thanks for sharing Gerbil. Like you say, the gym challenge is trivial compared to sexual assault, but important as even the tiny things women in prison used to have been taken away from them.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675.amp

Sorry it was Scotland.

Of course they have different policies around this. Whatever happens with the court case I don't think it will change anything in Scottish prisons..

Scotlands most dangerous prisoner has a trans identity.

They weren't put in the women's estate. I don't think that has changed.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/amp/

Blanket policies of self ID in countries such as Canada- I don't know what happens when they have an inmate like this on their hands.

There generally aren't as many high security prisons/ if any for women, around the place. As female prisoners tend not to be anywhere near as violent.

There is also the question of countries where the conditions are very different..

Of course this is one individual and the response is always that it's demonising a whole group based on one. But the fact is, this person exists, the position of certain activists means they should be in women's prison. And that's just not acceptable.

None of this is acceptable to me.

I agree Ddraig

It's not legislation, it's MoJ policy. Policy which should soon be ruled unlawful and which never should have been implemented. There isn't a hierarchy of protected characteristics, making provision for the "feelings" of one group should never take precedence over the safety of another.

This.

I think it’s disgraceful. Some of these lifers must get really horny so all they have to do is say they’re a woman and then they can go to a woman’s jail for a shag?!! Disgraceful. The women may have committed a crime but being in prison is enough of a punishment, they don’t deserve to be raped as well.

Has anyone had a reply from their MP about court case this thread refers to?

Nothing as yet from mine.