To expect some consideration from my living at home 21 year old son?

[OMGhelp]

I am bloody fuming and sitting here tight lipped with anger not daring to speak to anybody, in case they get it instaed of my DS1.
We (DH and I) are at present car less, to be remedied in the next few days. We sold our old one yesterday and had an agreement with our 21 year old son, who lives at home, that we could use his car to do the school run for DS2 aged 10. As DS1 is a chef his work would not be interfered with by the arrangment. This morning I took DS2 to school, I had wound the drivers window down and it wouldn't go back up, when I got back DS1 and myself tried to get it up manually but it shattered, scattering glass all over the car. I mentioned that he has windscreen coverage on his insurance and whilst he was sorting that out I hoovered his car to get rid of the glass, DH agreed to cover the excess of £60. Then he went to work.
When he came back, I asked him for the car keys at school pick up time and he said I couldn't have them as the windscreen bloke was due somewhere between 2.30 and 530pm. He then went on to say that I should walk to get DS2. I had 5 minutes to walk 2.6 miles. DH volunteered to come with me although he has Rhumatoid Arthritis and has only just started walking again after his recent steroid treatment.
We walked down, the school was very understanding and we found DS2 cuddling a guinee pig. On the way back, DS1 turned up and we thought he had had a stab of guilt and was coming to rescue us. Ohh No, the first words out of his mouth before we had even done up the seat belts was,'You forgot to leave the Money'.
The real question is, do we now give hime 2 months notice to get out of the house or not. This is not the only example of selfishness, inconsiderate behaviour, arrogance etc. I have wanted him out of the house since he was 16 years old as I don't really get on with him, but have always been over ruled by DH. But even DH is fuming.

Elizabeth he's 21 nearly 22, you are talking as if he still needs me to hold his hand in every thing he does. He has been in a full time job for 5 years. He travels all over the world on holidays, 3 weeks in Hong Kong this year. You make it seem like he is a 16 year old, a lot of 21 year old have homes, some have families, some even run big businesses. So don't give me that he isn't adult yet. Treating these young people as if they are still children does not help them grow up.
He is capable of arranging a repair man at a time that doesn't interfere with prior arrangements, like leaving a 10 year old at school till 4.45.

I know 45 year olds who couldn't manage that, OMGhelp. As you've already said he was at the mercy of the repair man who typically for workmen, wouldn't confirm an exact time. The car was out of commission and you're trying to blame him for that instead of realising that picking up your son is your responsiblity and if you're not going to have access to the car you need to make other arrangements.

At least she's honest. I think you need to wait until you've had a few teenagers before you can know how it's like. Sometimes they are very difficult to have around - you still love them but they can be unbearable. Actually once mine got to 16 - 17 they suddenly were a lot nicer again. In some ways having them go away at 18 to university is a good natural break point to enable you to develop adult relationships with them.

I think if he is to move out then it can be done in a very positive way like wow this is going to be great. You'll have all that space and privacy, we'll come over once a week with a meal and you can come over for Sunday lunch and your little brother can stay sometimes too and then get him involved in choosing a few pots and pans etc. Rather than a you must move out and never darken my door again.

I actually find your attitudes to grown up sons and husbands abilities to be very condescending. Why do you double check on hubby's when they are supposed to be organising a repair?

My attitude is not hostillity to him, it hostillity to you lot of judgemental harpies. He is a wonderful person, I can stand outside of myself long enough to realise that he is a hardworking young adult, who doesn't go out stealing, taking drugs or making an idiot of himself. I am also positive that he will make a good husband and great father when it is his time.

He has the money, a damn site more than I do, mind you my 10 year old has more than I do. He has to travel 80 miles a day to work, he has loads of friends in the city, he knows we will help him as best we can to help him move (O.K. some of you will say it's because I want him out) The exact same way we helped our daughter when she needed to move. So he has all the reasons to move, but he won't!

Thanks Xenia, we have tried that approach, but all he see's is £££££££££. Rent, Council tax, electric, gas, food. He knows which side his financial bread is buttered.

I don't have teenagers (yet) but I pretty much agree with Xenia.

21 is not a child.

I don't think it will be a positive move because the op is basically giving him no option but to move out. It could make or break him. If he gets himself together and learns to look after himself then he will probably be just fine. If he finds it too much of a struggle then he will probably be back asking to move home again.
Dhs dad seems to be a bit like this, he seems to resent and blame dh for being born. In fact when dhs mother was alive her exact words were 'We didn't want kids and when I found out i was pregnant I had to give up my career, and that really hurt'

I didn't specify that it was only men who might have a problem arranging appointments OMGhelp, I think you're reading something into it that isn't there. I know I've had problems sometimes juggling different requirements and timings. I'm just saying that being stuck waiting in for workmen or mechanics or whoever and not knowing exactly what time they are coming isn't unique to your son.

FWIW I totally understand what OMGhelp is saying about love and like. She loves him, but doesn't like him. It's not a difficult concept. Surely we have all felt that at some point about members of our families and for some that feeling has been more enduring than others.

I feel rather sorry for the OP and her son, really. She's obviously not happy that things are how they are but that's just the way it is. OK, so she may not have been mum of the year but as she says, she can't have been that bad for him to hang around for so long. Similarly if she really hated the boy she could have turfed him out long ago. I think on both part actions speak louder than words here.

There are many of us on this site who will have even worse relationships with their children when they get older so it might be best to reserve judgement until then.

Couldn't afford boarding school.

It also seems to be O.K for a man to feel this way about a child, but not the mother.

i think it speaks volumes that as soon as anyone disagrees we are labeled 'judgemental harpies' you asked for an opinion and got one!

perhaps your 'wonderful' son has also had the bloody nerve to have an opinion of his own as well (in fact, 8 years old is about the age most kids start to have opinions)

i think you sound hard-faced and pretty unpleasant, but hey, thats just my opinion!

He was an un-planned but very much wanted baby, a lovely baby, in fact a model baby as regards to eating sleeping etc. He just rubbed me up the wrong way as soon as he started getting a mind of his own, and he has had that that same attitude from about 6 years old.
I would have loved to have liked him, the way I like my daughter. I can go for girly day's out with her and there would be no critical snide remarks from her about anything. If we go anywhere with DS1, he critisises everything we do (including DH who thinks the world of him) including DH's driving ability when DH had a police Class 1 licience, and hasn't had a crash for 10 years.

I can understand where you're coming from OMG. I've got a grownup son still at home who at the moment seems to be totally workshy, contributes nothing to the household expenses, freeloads off of us, etc. But I am lucky because he is basically (believe it or not!) a lovely, kindhearted and loving lad and I love him loads. I will never turn him out. But if you think you can do this to your son then its probably for the best all round.

She asked for an opinion on her expectations of consideration, not on how good a mother she is. So, yes in this instance MN has been at it's judgemental worst.

Phantonofhteopera - 'He is still extremely resentful' - How on earth do you know this? Are you a close family friend? It staggers me that you can write such an authoratitive statement from the information in this thread.

OMGhelp - I'm sorry you've been given this response. My 2 cents worth is that your idea to move him out sounds the best all around and I hope that some space between the two of you helps you to regain some of the love you lost. Good luck.

If he is earning and can afford to go on expensive holidays then why doesn't he save up for a deposit with a view to buying his first pad?
He has no ties, a good job, friends. An independant financial advisor can help him. Renting a place is so expensive, at least if it is his he will have an investment. You should discuss it with him instead of just saying 'Ere! Get out of my house' (peggy mitchell style) He may need to stay with you a lot longer in order to save up. You and your husband can help him look around and give him advice about buying. It may help you bond. I just hate to think that you couldnt get over this situation.

I think you hit the nail on the head jesuswhatnext. After all this is the "Am I being unreasonable" forum. If you don't want answers or judgements then don't ask the question!

You don't seem to have made the connection that your behaviour and attitude towards him, OMGhelp, will have an effect on the way he behaves and responds to you.

I mean I'd say you'd been totally unreasonable about this. If he'd told you you couldn't use his car full-stop to pick up your son, or if he'd decided to go for a joy-ride when he knew you needed it to pick up your youngest then fair enough you being annoyed, but he was waiting in for the mechanic for goodness sake and that's enough to make you so angry you can't speak. It sounds like you've got him as your scapegoat.

It is about 20 to 1 you know and the only reasoned posts from you lot have been from Xenia, Pennies, and Phantom of the Opera. You have all gone instintive and automatically labelled me a wicked woman for admitting to not being unconditionally in love with my firstborn. You all may have wonderful relationships with your children and I really do hope you continue to have wonderful relationships with them, I just wish I could have had that with DS1. But most of us are not perfect, and expecting all mothers to be perfect without showing the other side of the coin just shows how rose tinted your glasses have become.