To expect some consideration from my living at home 21 year old son?

[OMGhelp]

I am bloody fuming and sitting here tight lipped with anger not daring to speak to anybody, in case they get it instaed of my DS1.
We (DH and I) are at present car less, to be remedied in the next few days. We sold our old one yesterday and had an agreement with our 21 year old son, who lives at home, that we could use his car to do the school run for DS2 aged 10. As DS1 is a chef his work would not be interfered with by the arrangment. This morning I took DS2 to school, I had wound the drivers window down and it wouldn't go back up, when I got back DS1 and myself tried to get it up manually but it shattered, scattering glass all over the car. I mentioned that he has windscreen coverage on his insurance and whilst he was sorting that out I hoovered his car to get rid of the glass, DH agreed to cover the excess of £60. Then he went to work.
When he came back, I asked him for the car keys at school pick up time and he said I couldn't have them as the windscreen bloke was due somewhere between 2.30 and 530pm. He then went on to say that I should walk to get DS2. I had 5 minutes to walk 2.6 miles. DH volunteered to come with me although he has Rhumatoid Arthritis and has only just started walking again after his recent steroid treatment.
We walked down, the school was very understanding and we found DS2 cuddling a guinee pig. On the way back, DS1 turned up and we thought he had had a stab of guilt and was coming to rescue us. Ohh No, the first words out of his mouth before we had even done up the seat belts was,'You forgot to leave the Money'.
The real question is, do we now give hime 2 months notice to get out of the house or not. This is not the only example of selfishness, inconsiderate behaviour, arrogance etc. I have wanted him out of the house since he was 16 years old as I don't really get on with him, but have always been over ruled by DH. But even DH is fuming.

I hope that once he has moved out you can have a better relationship with him. As his son, surely he deserves at least a chance?

You know if you asked him what he thought of you as a mother, I imagine he would say something similar to what you have said. I love her but I don't like her.

He isn't much more than a child at 21 you know. My 15 year old son and I row a lot.. but I hope to God he stays at home til he is older than 21! I want him to be able to enjoy his earnings (if he isn't still in education then) before he has to really grow up.

Xenia, The arrangement was for us to have use of his car for the school runs.

I don't think of myself as a toxic parent. What a nasty way to think about somebody who you don't know. If I hadn't slipped that bit in about me wanting him out since he was 16, you would all be saying 'Its about time he left home etc'.

He won't turn out to be an axe wielding maniac, he has no reason to.

Maybe the question is what happened to you when you were eight?

It is not normal to dislike your eight year old son and to congratulate yourself that you didn't put him in care. Where have you picked up attitudes like that? Was one of your parents as hostile to you as you are to your son?

Hostile parents keep their children tied to them a lot longer than parents who love and support their children BTW. Because they didn't give their kids what they need at the appropriate ages, the children find it difficult to become independent.

Yep I agree about him saying 'I love her but I don't like' but he is entitled to his opinion, and yes it is one of the saddest things I have to put up with in my life. I havn't failed as a parent, because I put my feeling to one side to be a good mother. I do think we will have a better relationship when we are apart. DH says we are too alike, I don't think we are alike at all, but I can't see the wood for the tree's.

If you dislike your son so much why ever did you go on to have another one?

It's a genuine question btw - how could you possibly have been sure you would have a child you liked next time round? or don't you like your other children either?

Hmmmm, you may be right Elizabeth, but quite a lot of boys (and girls) of 21 years nearly 22 are still at home with Mum and Dad does it mean all of those parents are hostile.

i think alot of people on this thread are being very judgemental. the op is being very honest, how many of us would admit anything like this?

you only have so much influence over your children, i know people who wouldnt have anything to do with their children in rl if they wernt their children. cant be that bad , hes still there.

Actually I went on to have another 2. DD1 and DS2 and I get on fantastically with them. I had dd before our relationship deteriorated, and DS2 much later.

I wasn't really talking about just 21 year olds. By being hostile to your son since he was eight you are undermining him and making it hard for him to become independent.

I'm still interested to find out where you picked up the idea that it was OK to say things like you could have put him in care. Those sort of attitudes don't come out of nowhere. Were your parents hostile to you?

Thank you Hifi.

We all have times when we are not getting on with our children as well as we would like and around age 7/8 a lot of boys do go thrugh a difficult testosterone fuelled phase. But the point is that it is a phase and you keep loving them and encouraging them and finding things to like until you make it through what is a stressful time for you both , you don't write off a relationship then and there! I don't think that you're wrong to ask him to move out if you really feel you are incompatible and he is disrespectful but it seems to me he has had two choices re his relationship with you; try to make you love him or act like he doesn't care what you think about him. This isn't really about the car it is about you waiting for him to do something that warrants you kicking him out, isn't it?

Given how you say you feel about your son, given that you think he is selfish, I am surprised that you didn't check on the arrangements for the timing of the repair appointment before the school run. Especially as this is your only car.
Did you trust your ds1 to make all the arrangements?

And once your ds told you you couldn't have the car, did you consider phoning up the repair service before you left to walk to school, just to get an idea of when the engineer would arrive?

FWIW, I think the OP has been given a bit of a rough ride here.

(which is not to say I totally agree or support some of her views - but she is entitled to express them)

The 'put him in care' was a throw away comment, to make people realise I was doing the best I could, It was not on the cards as an actual option. It was an extreme example of what other parents may have done in the same circumstances.

At the age of 8 I was happily living in Australia with both parents and my little sister, so no underlying causes there. My parents did go on to divorce when I was 13, so I don't think that was a major pointer.

We all have times when we are not getting on with our children as well as we would like and around age 7/8 a lot of boys do go thrugh a difficult testosterone fuelled phase. But the point is that it is a phase and you keep loving them and encouraging them and finding things to like until you make it through what is a stressful time for you both , you don't write off a relationship then and there! I don't think that you're wrong to ask him to move out if you really feel you are incompatible and he is disrespectful but it seems to me he has had two choices re his relationship with you; try to make you love him or act like he doesn't care what you think about him. This isn't really about the car it is about you waiting for him to do something that warrants you kicking him out, isn't it?

By the time he told us we couldn't have the car it was only 5 minutes before school time. He was just being unreasonable and spiteful as he considered it to be my fault that the window broke.
I did trust DS1 to make reasonable arrangments, he is after all an adult, and if you don't treat them as an adult they will never grow up.

I agree moonstruck.

From my perspective there are ways the OP could have helped organise the repair arrangements to stop this happening.

I realise I don't know the full story, OP - just going on what you have written.

Did it not occur to you that he'd need to arrange to get the window fixed OMGhelp? It seems like you are asking him to behave like an adult and plan ahead when you aren't doing the same yourself.

Mind you I'd probably be spiteful too if my mum had hated me from the age of eight.

I know you are all shocked, but we are all human, and I have had to endure a lot of years of shame at my reaction to my son, so please get off my back. If this is the reaction that other mums will get by revealing a similar shocking problem, it will never get brought into the open and no one will ever know the true extent of real parent child relationships.

There are many many much worse things than having a mother who loves you but just doesn't get on with you.

OMGhelp, finding out from your son about the timing of the repair would IMO have been simply communicating with him - not treating him as a child. How many times in his life has your 21 year old actually organised a car repair (or any repair) all by himself?

If it had been my dh was organising a repair like this, I'd phone to double check he'd remembered about the school run.

OMG do you think that he is often playing mind games like this?

Unless your son is David Platt, nothing you have said so far makes me think he is a terrible person.

Also, you say there are a lot of mums who love their sons but don't get on with them, but you talk about him with such venom, that there just doesn't seem to be a lot of love there either.

It probably would be better for him to move out to get away from the hostile corrosive atmosphere.