To ask how you get over resentment at being the higher earning partner?

[Bluetoybox]

My husband is a wonderful, kind and very sweet man who treats me beautifully and is an incredible Daddy to our little girl. He's a good man... I want to preface this by acknowledging he is a good man and a good husband in all the ways that matter.
He is self employed and generally speaking, brings home half my bring home income but this can be erratic. He also has so many outgoings that in terms of actual
contributions to our family life, be pays his half of the joint account where mortgage and bills are paid for and that is it. I pay the other half, 100% of the full time childcare bill, all groceries, all bits for our baby and all savings contributions. I do earn a fair salary but not amazing so there's nothing left after that and we only save £200 a month at the moment. It's not worth him stopping work to stay with the baby because he covers his own bills as well which mean he does make more than our childcare bill which is only temporary of course but giving up his business would mean having nothing to go back to once we no longer need the childcare.
I've only just gone back to work and am finding it very hard now because all my friends (who earn less than me) can stay home with their babies or work part time because their partners earn more. In fact in my circle of friends, of all the people in relationships I am the only one who earns more that their partner. And everyone else seems to be able to afford a much nicer quality of life than we can and I find myself now that I'm at the stage of having to leave my baby to go back to work feeling really resentful.

Please can I ask how to move past this as I know comparison is the thief of joy, I know I am lucky to be able to have a good job and a loving family and everything else in life is good. So how can I move past this stupid jealousy of what others have?

Running a business which is paying below minimum wage and sulking about having to do some share of the housework ...

Nice work if you can get it.

@FredSoftly it's mean spirited to @ someone when others have also said the same thing.

BillMasen

"I can’t answer why some men where their partners also work, don’t step up and do their fair share. Possibly connected to the original point, it can be hard if you’re working long hours and your partner is at home, to not feel grumpy that you need to follow up a days work with an evening cleaning. Not saying it’s right, just understandable."

Thanks. I'm not talking primarily about a situation where one parent is working out of the home and one is not working. I'm talking about situations where both partners work and one partner (almost always the woman) is doing the lion's share of the domestic work. In my non-scientific experience the huge majority of this work in the overwhelming majority of relationships is still being done by women.

Because, and without wanting to finger point (because credit is due to you for engaging on this) or sound like an angry feminist, this is the real battleground for us and the real source of resentment.

This is the one thing which in my experience men just aren't engaging with. It's the source of a lot of marital disharmony, the source of a lot of resentment, of dead sex lives and the limitation of a lot of women's otherwise promising careers.

For all those reasons and more, we really wish those of you who have the balls to join a thread like would engage with this.

@thepeopleversuswork @BillMasen yep. I think where both partners work irrespective of income, the lions share still falls on women. I hate having to work AND do more around the house. Or more precisely, anything involving the children. I don’t think Dh has ever bought dc’s clothes or shoes. He has done hospital appointments etc. But I still have to arrange all of this. Even when he was pt and I was ft. This is the bugbear. Added to difference in income, and I feel resentful of having to pick up the slack.

(Again, appreciate your input and hope you don’t feel we are being mean spirited toward all men in these generalisation - clearly lots of PP’s have partners that are nailing the home and kids side of things. Just feel I’m with OP here)

To be fair to BillMasen I'm sure he like the vast majority of men is in the camp for whom it hasn't crossed his mind as opposed to the camp who actively try to get out of it.

Generations of socialisation mean that certain things just don't cross their minds. Why should they? They haven't had to think about them before. The need to book doctor's appointments. Co-ordinating the children's social lives with those of the adults. Booking babysitters. Cancelling the cleaner because you're going on holiday. Picking up worming tablets for the cat. Arranging to leave work an hour early because a kid has a school play.

Its a double whammy -- almost a triple whammy: because the infrastructure of life skews towards pushing these tasks onto women. For several reasons a) there's historically always been a woman at home to do this so why think about it b) there's still almost always a woman in the office to do it so why think about it and c) you actually lose brownie points at work in many jobs for doing this sort of thing because its not something senior people ought to concern themselves with. All of this fuses to create a culture which makes it really hard for men to make the shift.

So there are plenty of men who are fine with doing drop-offs (when told when to do them), fine with putting a load of washing on (when told when to do it) and cooking a meal so forth. What they can't for the life of them do is embed the shift from "doing it to her help her out because she works too" to "this is my job as well and I need to be on it all the time".

This is the thing which really pisses women off, makes them feel unequal, builds resentment in marriages, puts them off sex and ultimately makes them want to leave. And this is the absolute last frontier: the one thing most men, even the most progressive men, still consider to be absolutely beneath them.

And if I sound angry and resentful -- its because I am. And BillMasen I'm sorry if you've got all of the flack because you don't deserve it any more than the rest of your lot. You were just the one who had the decency to confront it.

I think there are a lot of separate issues around housework sharing. Some can be just laziness but a lot has to do with explicitly discussing how to deal with all household tasks on an ongoing basis. It's not something that just works itself out by ad hoc requests or expecting people to step up to do a job that they haven't done before. Most of these kinds of jobs work best when they are done by the same person all the time, or there is some logical system for who does what when, and often the pattern is set very early on in the relationship. It's difficult for example to trade off who takes care of the weekly schedule or buying seasonal clothes without some kind of handover, just like it would be to change it at a job without some kind of procedure.

I think sometimes people don't treat home life - choses, management etc - like it's a systematic task that requires some sort of standard operating procedure. A few couples do it intuitively but most don't. One of the things with gender roles historically was that these things were set out in a way that was pretty clear. But when that generalised structure isn't there you need to develop an individual one for your family.

I am the higher earner and my career is progressing well. I also at times feel a twang of resentment though tbf my partner actually earns reasonably well and has potential to improve in the future. I fully expect to take mat leave but I would probably go back to work mostly full time.

My partner is a medic like me but works less than full time hours as he is pursuing a completely unrelated degree that really in no way will increase our income. I don’t mind and see it as his thing that he is doing for a finite amount of time. After all I moved us halfway across the country for 10 years to pursue my post-grad training.

The problem in our case is that to earn more he would have to significantly do more hours and that would mean we would not see each other as much. It’s actually quite hard to have two high earners in any relationship especially post children and I can only imagine would put a strain on the relationship. Coupled with the stress of some careers in medicine and lack of jobs in the same region it is very difficult.

I guess no one knows what the future holds and to be brutal he certainly has much greater likelihood to inherit far more wealth than me so I think just take things as they come in these situations.

@thepeopleversuswork

BillMasen

"I can’t answer why some men where their partners also work, don’t step up and do their fair share. Possibly connected to the original point, it can be hard if you’re working long hours and your partner is at home, to not feel grumpy that you need to follow up a days work with an evening cleaning. Not saying it’s right, just understandable."

Thanks. I'm not talking primarily about a situation where one parent is working out of the home and one is not working. I'm talking about situations where both partners work and one partner (almost always the woman) is doing the lion's share of the domestic work. In my non-scientific experience the huge majority of this work in the overwhelming majority of relationships is still being done by women.

Because, and without wanting to finger point (because credit is due to you for engaging on this) or sound like an angry feminist, this is the real battleground for us and the real source of resentment.

This is the one thing which in my experience men just aren't engaging with. It's the source of a lot of marital disharmony, the source of a lot of resentment, of dead sex lives and the limitation of a lot of women's otherwise promising careers.

For all those reasons and more, we really wish those of you who have the balls to join a thread like would engage with this.

I’m more than happy to engage but the problem you have is that I’m not in the group of men you refer to. I live on my own, do all my own housework of any persuasion, share care with my kids, do it all (like so many others I know)

Even when married and we both worked (ore kids) I was the clean and tidy one who just did stuff, so I’ll pretty much agree with you but not give you much insight into how other men behave.

I can speculate. That’s all

And it’s fine, I’m not feeling got at. Happy to engage but fundamentally I agree with you, men don’t do enough.

mulling this over, maybe a lot is upbringing. Boys who never had to do anything grow to be men who don’t know how, then husbands who won’t? Some of us clock this and rectify as it’s not right, some move out and have to learn, some never stand on their own 2 feet.

Maybe it’s modelling what their parents did. Dad works mum cooks and cleans. I’m divorced and know that my kids see me doing everything in one house (cleaning and DIY) and their mum the same in the other.

I don’t know any men who say “that’s not my job” to housework but maybe some who don’t cook, but do other things.

SmokedDuck

"Most of these kinds of jobs work best when they are done by the same person all the time, or there is some logical system for who does what when, and often the pattern is set very early on in the relationship."

That's probably true, and its definitely true that it can't happen ad hoc. But its not equitable or sustainable to have one person do all these tasks all the time if that person is also working full time.

So its probably is a case of treating your home/childcare admin the way you'd treat your office admin, sitting down at the beginning of the month to plan things out etc. Systematise it. That's the only way I can see it changing really.

BillMasen

"Some of us clock this and rectify as it’s not right, some move out and have to learn, some never stand on their own 2 feet."

This is right: and its sad really that it often takes having to move out to learn, but it often does. I think when men as you described have been brought up to think "dad works, mum looks after the home" its unsurprising really that it doesn't really click until its at breaking point.

My very fervant hope is that the next generation won't require a 40% divorce rate to make this point.

Thanks. I'm not talking primarily about a situation where one parent is working out of the home and one is not working. I'm talking about situations where both partners work and one partner (almost always the woman) is doing the lion's share of the domestic work. In my non-scientific experience the huge majority of this work in the overwhelming majority of relationships is still being done by women.

Because, and without wanting to finger point (because credit is due to you for engaging on this) or sound like an angry feminist, this is the real battleground for us and the real source of resentment.

This is the one thing which in my experience men just aren't engaging with. It's the source of a lot of marital disharmony, the source of a lot of resentment, of dead sex lives and the limitation of a lot of women's otherwise promising careers.

This has been the case in my marriage, and many others I know.

I bring home more than 50% of the money but also do more than 50% of the childcare, 50% of the life admin and 50% of the housework. My husband was very keen for me to go back to work FT after having children because he didn’t want to be any poorer (and didn’t want the stress of being the main breadwinner). And although I did really want to work FT after having children for many reasons (financial independence, pension, standard of living, security) it’s hard when I miss my child and feel like both a wage slave and a domestic slave - I often find myself thinking it would be much easier just to be a domestic slave, at least I’d only have one job and I wouldn’t miss my son.

In this sense, I think feminism has been a huge win for a lot of men. They’ve had the burden of being the primary wage earner taken off their shoulders, while women have just had money making added to their list of responsibilities.

@Karmakarmachameleon hear, hear

often the pattern is set very early on in the relationship

Yes, and often women don't realize what they are walking into. Look at all the 'sending cards to in-laws' threads, just as an example. Yes it was probably so cute when you could first send cards to PILs from 'John and Jane' because they are now your family too, aww. But once it's a task number 1034 on your ever growing mental load list - not so cute any more.

One thing to consider is he has a large expenditure that finishes in the autumn, that will be a weight off both you minds and will free up some his income to help with other bills.

But honestly he probably feels bad for not earning as much and not being able to cover as much. I'm in the lower wage side and I know I feel bad even though my partner is not bothered by it as he knows I do the best I can.

I think it will be easier once those car payments are finished with. An extra £470 a month will make a big difference. Try not to compare (need to tell myself this constantly). Its so hard sometimes, everythings so expensive!!!! I feel like on paper our combined incomes should give us a somewhat comfortable life but it doesn't, always need overtime for extra stuff like a holiday or similar and we don't live over our means xxxxx

Can he grow his business and earn more?
Is there a chance to market him set more effectively, branch out into adjacent services, hire a helper so he can take on more work?

I'm twice-married. First husband was a heavy drinker, almost alcoholic, most of our money was peed away. Bills were left unpaid, usually hidden with the joint bank statements, and huge arguments occurred when I found we'd been threatned with being cut-off or owed £££ having gone over our overdraft. He earned half what I did; we never went on holidays, at one point there wasn't even enough in the bank to buy myself a new pair of shoes and I was the one constantly begging the bank manager for an overdraft. Yet he could easily spend £30-60 pounds on a single ticket to attend a rugby match (not including beer money) so when the rugby seasons rolled around it was a particularly stressful time to say the least. It was only when we divorced did I realise how much money he had been spending considering how less money than me he earned, and how much of my money he was spending. (I say 'my' very loosely - I did consider it our money, until I divorced him!).

With my second husband, when we first met he was the higher earner but due to unfortunate circumstances he now earns half. He hardly spends a thing so it's a much more compatible relationship in that respect. I do wish he could earn more.. I'm old fashioned that way.. but life doesn't always deal the hand we want and we have to make the best of things.

I agree with you OP. I could of wrote this and feel this way a lot.

I am the high earner as he started a new career which hasn’t planned out well. I to feel resentful when I miss all the school events, I don’t get to see my darling DS face when I pick him up, the walk back from school and little chats about his day whereas he gets to do that.

I get very agitated because he has the potential to earn more but won’t apply for anything, won’t ask for a pay rise and hasn’t committed to completing his exams which would give him a higher earning potential!

He does though do over half the chores, contributes to 50% of the bills, mortgage and food but then I’ve made it non negotiable. I do though pay for days out, meals, birthday and Christmas. It is a lot of stress because I’d like to just go part time to do the mom stuff and would like for him to surprise us with a holiday like I do for us but...

I do feel your pain

Sounds as though you have a happy marriage and I am sure not all your friends will (even if they appear to). I think, in your position i too may feel resentful. I'm not saying you should but you are only human. I think you have to see it as your joint income is X, rather than that you earn Y and he earns Z. At least when the car loan is paid off, there will be more money available. I think you are quite lucky to have a lovely, happy family.

I think everyone just makespersonal choices that are right for them at the time. After my second child I chose to stop work and stay home with the children. I was the highest earner at the time. We had to make sacrifices, foreign holidays and the idea of savings or HP went out the window. But that's the choice we made. My youngest is now 12, my husband has progressed in his career and is now on (relatively) good money. I work part -time and earn a terrible wage, and have no prospect of earning more unless I go for a major change. No route is perfect.

You need more friends that work equally as hard and are equally as skint . Plenty of us around!

I’ve been the higher earner for the 23 years of my marriage. We have 2 DS who are now teenagers. None of my friends worked full time when their children were little/still at primary school and most of them don’t now. I have been resentful for 23 years and tried everything to spend more time with my kids. My desire for flexibility has damaged my career. My DH wouldn’t consider working less hours so I have the hardest job and do all the childcare, sick days, holiday clubs etc. I don’t actually know why we stayed together but I CBA to do anything about it now.