To ask how you get over resentment at being the higher earning partner?

[Bluetoybox]

My husband is a wonderful, kind and very sweet man who treats me beautifully and is an incredible Daddy to our little girl. He's a good man... I want to preface this by acknowledging he is a good man and a good husband in all the ways that matter.
He is self employed and generally speaking, brings home half my bring home income but this can be erratic. He also has so many outgoings that in terms of actual
contributions to our family life, be pays his half of the joint account where mortgage and bills are paid for and that is it. I pay the other half, 100% of the full time childcare bill, all groceries, all bits for our baby and all savings contributions. I do earn a fair salary but not amazing so there's nothing left after that and we only save £200 a month at the moment. It's not worth him stopping work to stay with the baby because he covers his own bills as well which mean he does make more than our childcare bill which is only temporary of course but giving up his business would mean having nothing to go back to once we no longer need the childcare.
I've only just gone back to work and am finding it very hard now because all my friends (who earn less than me) can stay home with their babies or work part time because their partners earn more. In fact in my circle of friends, of all the people in relationships I am the only one who earns more that their partner. And everyone else seems to be able to afford a much nicer quality of life than we can and I find myself now that I'm at the stage of having to leave my baby to go back to work feeling really resentful.

Please can I ask how to move past this as I know comparison is the thief of joy, I know I am lucky to be able to have a good job and a loving family and everything else in life is good. So how can I move past this stupid jealousy of what others have?

I also agree to think about doing 4 days. I think people sometimes think only the lower earner should reduce hours, but that doesn't have to be the case if you can make the figures work. I found if I take into account not needing to pay nursery, commuting costs etc that day, that although there is a fair amount of drop in salary I feel it is worth it for the time with my child and reduced work stress.

The OP is not “extremely sexist.” She is able to be honest about her genuine feelings and is prepared to challenge her perspectives.

In my husband’s culture, a man would fully expect to support the family for as long as the woman needs him to after a child comes along. If he’s not able to do so, he has no business becoming a father. People may rail against that and call it backward or whatever, but at least it gives women choice and there is less pressure on them, in many ways, because they fully expect to be able to take as long as they need.

If it were a man complaining about being the high earner, I wonder how the responses would differ?!

@catsx4

The OP is not “extremely sexist.” She is able to be honest about her genuine feelings and is prepared to challenge her perspectives.

In my husband’s culture, a man would fully expect to support the family for as long as the woman needs him to after a child comes along. If he’s not able to do so, he has no business becoming a father. People may rail against that and call it backward or whatever, but at least it gives women choice and there is less pressure on them, in many ways, because they fully expect to be able to take as long as they need.

Which culture is this, @catsx4?

Personally, I'm all in favour of any culture which supports family-friendly, flexible working for parents of both sexes, so that parenthood versus work isn't seen as some kind of either/or choice.

@catsx4

The OP is not “extremely sexist.” She is able to be honest about her genuine feelings and is prepared to challenge her perspectives.

In my husband’s culture, a man would fully expect to support the family for as long as the woman needs him to after a child comes along. If he’s not able to do so, he has no business becoming a father. People may rail against that and call it backward or whatever, but at least it gives women choice and there is less pressure on them, in many ways, because they fully expect to be able to take as long as they need.

Wow. Gender stereotypes give women a choice? I think you are very, very wrong.

Some women being the higher earner and finding out it isn't all roses is part of a moving to a more truly equal society. OPs situation is replicated in households all over the country, but most of the time it is still the man who is in the higher earning position. Do you think that the MN faithful would give any of them the time of day for complaining about it and wanting to stop their wives doing something they loved so they could earn more money? Let's get real here.

Yes, there are plenty of women in here who somehow end up doing it all when they are the higher earner and that is not acceptable, but if it is just a case of being uncomfortable because you want your male partner to earn and contribute more financially than you then it is really just something you need to get over.

I believe we still have a long way to go in getting to family friendly work environments that allow more couples too more equally share caring and earning, but there is always likely to be some imbalance in earnings within couples.

Surely he could have a cheaper 4x4! Why does he need that for his job? Can’t he get a cheap second hand? I think you need to be careful on that side of things.

I don't get this at all. It's very common for one partner in a marriage to earn more, just usually it's the man. I wonder whether, deep down, your discomfort is based in the cultural expectation that the man should be the breadwinner?

Exactly my thoughts.

In my husband’s culture, a man would fully expect to support the family for as long as the woman needs him to after a child comes along. If he’s not able to do so, he has no business becoming a father. People may rail against that and call it backward or whatever, but at least it gives women choice and there is less pressure on them, in many ways, because they fully expect to be able to take as long as they need.

That's all very well if the woman's genuine "choice" is to remain at home for the perpetuity of her family life (which is problematic in my view anyway).

But this very quickly becomes an excuse to insist that the "choice" to remain at home is the woman's "default" and therefore her obligation.

This argument has been used a great deal in the past to convince women that their default and natural setting should be in the home raising children. The corollary to this is that a) the woman loses any of her right to her own economic independence and we all know where that leads b) that it becomes easy to argue that a woman who wants to work is "unnatural" or in some way stepping back from her domestic or emotional duties as a mother. And c) that all domestic and emotional duties automatically fall solely to the mother.

So while I agree that a man who has no intention of providing any support to his children has no business becoming a father, I'd be very careful of assuming that that automatically leads to a requirement that he and only he carry all financial responsibility. That just takes us back to the 1950s.

Can you work 4.5 days per week and get say every second Wednesday off? I find small tweaks like that can really help work life balance.

@ruledbynine

Surely he could have a cheaper 4x4! Why does he need that for his job? Can’t he get a cheap second hand? I think you need to be careful on that side of things.

If you need a 4x4 for your job you will need to make sure it is reliable and up to the job. A cheap, older vehicle may not do (given that these working vehicles are being sold by others who have already decided that they are no longer fit for purpose). There are plenty of jobs that need such vehicles, particularly if you are offering services in rural areas.

The only reason I raised this issue about how things are perceived differently in my DH’s culture, was not to say either way is right or wrong necessarily. It’s far from clear cut. But I do also think too many men in the U.K. these days think it’s absolutely fine to let their wives / partners take maternity leave; do most of the primary care; return to work ASAP without complaint; be the higher earner; take on the majority of domestic and childcare related headspace, etc - and they think this is all fine because “equality.” Frankly, I would not tolerate or pander to a man like that because what is the point of them?

@catsx4 - a very sexist view in 2021. What about a woman shouldn’t become a mother if she can’t support her child? Why should the man be the higher earner? Perhaps the father would like to be a SAHP?

@catsx4

The only reason I raised this issue about how things are perceived differently in my DH’s culture, was not to say either way is right or wrong necessarily. It’s far from clear cut. But I do also think too many men in the U.K. these days think it’s absolutely fine to let their wives / partners take maternity leave; do most of the primary care; return to work ASAP without complaint; be the higher earner; take on the majority of domestic and childcare related headspace, etc - and they think this is all fine because “equality.” Frankly, I would not tolerate or pander to a man like that because what is the point of them?

But I do also think too many men in the U.K. these days think it’s absolutely fine to let their wives / partners take maternity leave; do most of the primary care; return to work ASAP without complaint; be the higher earner; take on the majority of domestic and childcare related headspace, etc - and they think this is all fine because “equality.”

Em, your deeply fucked-up ideas about gender are showing. How do you imagine a man would 'stop' his wife taking maternity leave or returning to work, let alone prevent her from being the higher earner? Clubbing her over the head and dragging her back to his cave? Is that what your husband's culture espouses?

Agreed of course that both partners should divide all childcare and chores equally according to work outside the home etc, but that's an entirely separate question.

SackofTurtles if I've read this correctly what catsx4 was getting at (albeit phrased oddly) is that a lot of men basically take the bits of "equality" that suit them: ie they are happy for a woman to work full time and be economically productive and do most of the domestic/child-related labour. They can't or won't adjust their lifestyles to take account for the fact that the woman needs extra support with these things.

So you get a partnership which is technically "progressive" in that the man and woman are both economically productive, but "traditional" on the domestic front in that the woman is doing most of the domestic heavy lifting.

I don't think the solution to this is for the pendulum to swing back to having the man as sole breadwinner and the woman as sole provider of domestic labour. But I do think men need to be trained to get past the idea that its enough simply to have made peace with the fact that your wife or partner is working.

There's a whole front in the equality wars which we've barely scratched the surface of, which is getting men to accept an equal share of domestic labour to women.

@thepeopleversuswork

SackofTurtles if I've read this correctly what catsx4 was getting at (albeit phrased oddly) is that a lot of men basically take the bits of "equality" that suit them: ie they are happy for a woman to work full time and be economically productive and do most of the domestic/child-related labour. They can't or won't adjust their lifestyles to take account for the fact that the woman needs extra support with these things.

So you get a partnership which is technically "progressive" in that the man and woman are both economically productive, but "traditional" on the domestic front in that the woman is doing most of the domestic heavy lifting.

I don't think the solution to this is for the pendulum to swing back to having the man as sole breadwinner and the woman as sole provider of domestic labour. But I do think men need to be trained to get past the idea that its enough simply to have made peace with the fact that your wife or partner is working.

There's a whole front in the equality wars which we've barely scratched the surface of, which is getting men to accept an equal share of domestic labour to women.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of that, but I think @catsx4 own internalised sexism was showing with the way in which she phrased it.

No I didn’t say anything about women being stopped from working or dragged in caves. No need to take everything to the extreme to make an obvious point. What I’m saying is, women don’t feel as if they have to return to work before they’re ready because generally, the DH wouldn’t need or expect this of them. But if they do want to go to work, that’s a different matter, obviously. The point is, extended maternity or SAH tends to be more of a realistic choice because men tend to factor in and plan accordingly for the fact that women may well want to spend a given time with their children, seeing as they gave birth to them and everything else that ensues, emotionally and physically.

Being in the higher earner camp as a woman seems to still come with the additional emotional labour and more household chores. Everything from organising play dates, school, birthdays, kids clothes, homework, the school run, plus keeping house. This is where I struggle with not being resentful at times.

I wonder if this is the problem women face whether they work or not? I’m definitely finding it hard given we see the old culture of men working and women in the home where men didn’t help equally around the house. Now we work, we want men to realise they need to step up domestically.

Are there any male views on here?

I am the main earner in in our house. Its very much a role reversal to the old fashioned days but dh does so much to support me and the house I actually don't care. Equally he doesn't take the piss and we make an incredibly good team. I see all the support he gives me as enabling me to earn the money I do for us. I love him. I want him to be happy and we work together to do that. I love working he doesn't but he looks after the cooking and his parents and all the little things that just get done. Will it change one day? Maybe but he's always been like this. He isn't a cock lodger by any stretch and does way more at home than I do.

I don't say this to rub salt into your wounds so sorry if it does. Ultimately he's the best thing that's ever happened to me, he makes me laugh and cares for me in a way he couldn't do if he was a high flying exec.

I had always been attracted to career men before but the difference he's made in my work life support because he doesn't work has actually got me to where I am today.

He also owns our house outright, he put me on the papers. Frankly I couldn't be happier. He's my biggest fan.

It can work. You just need to find a way together. Good luck

You're subsidising his car. But as it's soon to be paid off, you need to ring fence that money (all of it) for childcare. So hopefully in the autumn you'll be much better off. Also do this quickly before he starts planning on other ways of spending 'his money' - as that's how he'll see it

@FlowersAreBeautiful

You're subsidising his car. But as it's soon to be paid off, you need to ring fence that money (all of it) for childcare. So hopefully in the autumn you'll be much better off. Also do this quickly before he starts planning on other ways of spending 'his money' - as that's how he'll see it

This.

He needs an expensive car for his extremely low paying job.

That on top of the inequity with chores, makes him a very expensive partner.

The OP is indulging his job choice, whether she wants to admit or not.

Infact she's waited years to be able to afford to have one child.

The OP is always going to have to be the parent in this relationship and she has every right to feel resentment.

When the OP factors in his expensive car, and petrol it does sound as if this is a hobby job.

The OP is not that highly paid to be subsidising his hobby career but it sounds as if she has chosen to do so.

Having given birth makes a huge difference in being the adult in the marriage.

She is carrying every load AND leaving her baby.

It sounds very hard.
She resents the reality that she has NO wiggle room in her position.

@Snorkello

Being in the higher earner camp as a woman seems to still come with the additional emotional labour and more household chores. Everything from organising play dates, school, birthdays, kids clothes, homework, the school run, plus keeping house. This is where I struggle with not being resentful at times.

I wonder if this is the problem women face whether they work or not? I’m definitely finding it hard given we see the old culture of men working and women in the home where men didn’t help equally around the house. Now we work, we want men to realise they need to step up domestically.

Are there any male views on here?

This is exactly what I mean.

Women do all the emotional labour and household chores in most cases, regardless of whether they work FT or stay at home.

The women's movement has largely won the argument about the benefit to everyone of women being financially independent: few people seriously question a woman's right to work or whether its beneficial for "the family" (always a loaded term). Aside from some real neanderthals, men have come to terms with this.

We have only just started to have the conversation about what the attendant responsibilities are for men on the domestic front. There's a lot of work to do here. In my experience very few men are genuinely sharing the load. Even the most progressive ones, the ones who accept division or labour in the home in theory, still need a lot of handholding and needling to get stuff done and very few of them indeed consider the broader mental and emotional load to be their problem.

This is probably going to take a couple of generations to sort out, sadly.

@thepeopleversuswork you are so right. So how do those of us whose partners don’t acknowledge this imbalance in the home get started to become more like @Sep21mum ? (Super jealous btw! this is where I want to be!)

The OP is indulging his job choice, whether she wants to admit or not

I also agree with this. It would be one thing if he was doing a low paid but vocational job like nursing but it sounds like the husband here is pissing around doing a hobby job because he enjoys it and can't even be arsed to deal with the overheads properly so that he earns less than minimum wage.

[quote Snorkello]**@thepeopleversuswork* you are so right. So how do those of us whose partners don’t acknowledge this imbalance in the home get started to become more like @Sep21mum* ? (Super jealous btw! this is where I want to be!)[/quote]
I don't know Snokello... if I had the answer to this I'd probably be wealthy .

I think it probably helps to start as you mean to go on and make clear that you will put your foot down about this at the start of a relationship and before you embark on cohabiting or child-rearing with anyone. Much easier to do this from the get-go than trying to retrofit it 10 years into a relationship with entrenched habits.

But depressingly I know plenty of couples in relationships where they both pride themselves on sharing the load etc and the women always inevitably end up doing the lion's share. These habits are very entrenched and it takes a long time to turn this sort of thing around.

I think you have to be prepared to make it a hill you will die on and not allow yourself to do things for a quiet life etc.

Easy for me to say as I don't live with my partner I guess....

Stuff isn't important in the scheme of things. If he is good man, works hard, looks after your children then earnings are of less importance. Many on here seem to have massive problems with higher earning husbands that won't share money.
Money does seem to be the route of all evil. Don't envy those that appear to have more...many have huge debts or the opposite inheritance or financial help from family