To mind that DSS wants to have children so they can go to the wedding?

[snowisfallingallaroundus]

I suddenly feel old and judgy and didn't think I was.

DSS has been with girlfriend for a number of years. Lovely couple. Bought a house together last year and now announcing they are planning to start a family. Great. They then start saying they want a family before having a wedding as it would be more fun for the kids to be in attendance and involved.

I've surprised myself at my reaction. I've said nothing to them (and never would) but in my head I'm going WTF. House, kids then marriage? If marriage is important do it before children. You don't deliberately plan it the other way. Oddly them not getting married but having children didn't elicit any reaction in me.

AIBU? Am I old and out of touch? Is this how things are done now? Any insights into why I'm feeling such a reaction?

@HairboStrawb

Me and Dp are getting married in 2023, we will have been together almost 13 years and will have a 4 year old and probably a 1 year old. We have been engaged 4 years and we were due to get married this year.

We were always going to have DC first and then get married!

Why?

@SushiYum

I know a few couples who had their DC and then married 10 years or so later. At least they know how strong a couple they are once faced with the stress and struggles of raising DC. Too many people rush into marriage 3 years or less of being a couple. Then they divorce.

@LaceyBetty

But it's better to rush into having children together? I'd rather rush into a marriage and divorce that tie myself to someone for life having had babies with them.

This in spades...^ It's irresponsible at best, batshit and precarious at worst, for a woman to have children before getting married.

I can't believe any woman (in 2021,) is blinkered and naïve enough to do this.

Yanbu. Marriage is a legal agreement that was created to sort out finances, protect children and the main carer etc

Now a lot of not too bright people think it is only a ‘party’ or a ‘piece of paper’ or thet they have ‘common law mariage’ (in England therenis no auch thing’. Then they get all upset to find out they have no spousal rights over house, inheritance etc. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

OP, youre right.

*It's irresponsible at best, batshit and precarious at worst, for a woman to have children before getting married.

I can't believe any woman (in 2021,) is blinkered and naïve enough to do this.*

Er...you do know not all men are wealthier than all women don’t you?

I agree with you. But then, it is their circus and you are very wise to let them get on with it.

@breadbinbaby

*It's irresponsible at best, batshit and precarious at worst, for a woman to have children before getting married.

I can't believe any woman (in 2021,) is blinkered and naïve enough to do this.*

Er...you do know not all men are wealthier than all women don’t you?

Exactly. Not all women are fragile humans who financially depend on men. We are more than capable of earning money and having a great career. Some people have DC and then get married at a later date. Why are people so judgemental?

@SushiYum

I know a few couples who had their DC and then married 10 years or so later. At least they know how strong a couple they are once faced with the stress and struggles of raising DC. Too many people rush into marriage 3 years or less of being a couple. Then they divorce.

YABU. You sound old fashioned and judgemental.

Some people value themselves more highly than that though.

Why would any woman give a man all the benefits of marriage for so many years without having the security that marriage offers them? (and it is always women who come off worse post maternity leave)

I did live with DH before marriage, but I only moved in with him once we had agreed in principle that we would be engaged soon afterwards.

Nfw would I have viewed ‘living together’ as an open ended relationship stage.

They might have every reason to want to crack on with having dc before a wedding, especially if they don’t want to be planning logistics around covid etc. Even if they’re young, no one knows, if the gf has endometriosis or polycystic ovary syndrome or whatever, they might not want to wait another 2 or 3 years before they start trying, and they may not necessarily want to share all the details, so they’ve come up with this cute story in the hopes that that will be an end to it and everyone can go back to minding their own uterus.

Or if the gf has been pg accidentally and miscarried, that can sometimes make people long for a baby very powerfully. Other people’s fertility is nobody else’s business, that’s all there is to it. It’s not like they’ve only known each other 5 minutes.

*Some people value themselves more highly than that though.

Why would any woman give a man all the benefits of marriage for so many years without having the security that marriage offers them? (and it is always women who come off worse post maternity leave)*

Ah, well, I ‘valued myself more highly’ than to come off worse post maternity leave, and chose to come off better instead.

@MadameButterface

They might have every reason to want to crack on with having dc before a wedding, especially if they don’t want to be planning logistics around covid etc. Even if they’re young, no one knows, if the gf has endometriosis or polycystic ovary syndrome or whatever, they might not want to wait another 2 or 3 years before they start trying, and they may not necessarily want to share all the details, so they’ve come up with this cute story in the hopes that that will be an end to it and everyone can go back to minding their own uterus.

And yes, this was our situation (I was relatively fortunate to have had a diagnosis young of one of the conditions you mention) hence prioritising the baby, but my absentminded doctor forgot to ask my partner who his dad’s latest squeeze was so she could be copied into my medical notes.

@VinylDetective

I could understand that comment much better if we were discussing politics, the effects of the internet, climate change or pandemics

That’s because you’re half my age @RickiTarr. Our life experience is very different.

You’re 90? I’d just let it all wash over you then, TBH. Concentrate on enjoying yourself. Honestly, sitting around comparing the social mores of 1950 to now would give anyone a headache.

Obviously the desire to have children is greater than the desire to get married. It's a sort of justification to themselves.

Sounds like a load of shite, what is about weddings (one day!) that brings out the stupid in people?

I find some of the comments I read about having children before marriage on Mumsnet so offensive.

I'm not stupid and I don't "not value myself very highly", I just made a decision that made sense for our relationship and future plans.

We have a joint mortgage and I have a very good career that I don't intend to give up. If the worst happened and we split, I certainly wouldn't be left destitute. We planned to get married, but Covid happened and neither of us were willing to put our plans to start a family on hold. We'd both like a proper wedding and not a quick registry office job just for the sake of legitimising our poor bastard child.

It's a decision we came to after discussing the implications at length and it's literally no one else's business.

We plan to get married next year when the baby is a few months old (although according to Mumsnet we won't because all men decide against marriage as soon as the baby is born )

Do you think you could manage not to be quite so unnecessarily rude @RickiTarr? We’re all the product of our times. I expect your views will be regarded as quaintly anachronistic in a couple of decades. Hopefully their detractors will be able to be polite whilst disagreeing.

@VinylDetective

Do you think you could manage not to be quite so unnecessarily rude *@RickiTarr*? We’re all the product of our times. I expect your views will be regarded as quaintly anachronistic in a couple of decades. Hopefully their detractors will be able to be polite whilst disagreeing.

Oh I’m so sorry @VinylDetective I was aiming for jocular rather than rude, I was very surprised to learn your age, and I seriously meant that surveying the changes over seventy years of adulthood must feel like slipping through the looking glass on every conceivable front.

I just discovered on Mumsnet yesterday that I belong (by a whisper) to a generational demographic called “Xennials” defined by the fact that we had analogue childhoods and digital adulthoods and I found that quite a helpful descriptor of my disjointed feeling about some things at 45ish.

So I have every intention of letting it all wash over me at a certain, not too distant point.

I’m glad you’re not pushing your views onto others in real life life, it’s very annoying when people do that, unless asked to. :) I’m happily unmarried and both my kids would LOVE us to get married so they can be part of the big day and celebrate our union. We’ve reminded them we are unhappily unmarried and equally devoted. But if we ever change our minds and do marry, I will be happy no one judges us for having the little darlings beforehand.

Happily unmarried, that’s supposed to read but the typo did make me laugh out loud. 😂

Your views are very old fashioned. I wasn't married until after my first child was born and we didn't make a big deal out if it to be honest. Still being with my hubby after many if our acquaintances who had a big wedding before children and are now divorced and I have other friends with families who never bothered to get married. Goes to show that every couple is different and the wedding or order of having a family does not maketh the life.

It doesn't really matter what we think, you seem to be more bothered about your own reaction than the actual situation but your own opinion is your own opinion, albeit maybe old fashioned.
Personally I have no desire to ever get married, I'm 40 with a 17 year old and realised a long time ago that I just want it though if my partner REALLY wanted us to get married then I would do it to keep him happy but my compromise would be just us and witnesses.

I suggest pointing out that once you have kids there are always unexpected costs. Are they sure they will be able to save for a wedding after having children. My partners not so sure about getting married now as sees it as a waste of money for others benefit of a party as it won't change the relationship. Had I known this would be the outcome I'd have put my foot down on it as I see it as meaning I would know the kids are secure if something happened to one of us. At present the house is in his name despite being equally paid and my eldest who knows him as dad would end up in a custody battle as he has no legal rights over his biological father who has been absent for a the best part of a decade. Finances once having kids may mean it does not happen at all. Are they both OK with that outcome?

I would have hated my kids being in my wedding!
That day was for me and my husband not for my kids they get enough of everything else!

I've got one son married with a baby coming I hope my other kids do it the same way. More security for baby and the rights of my sons as fathers

I understand the implications for financial security more than any other reasoning for doing marriage first.
My mum and dad spoke about getting married a few years ago, mum had never been keen but was waivering. I was very excited about the prospect (for the party) but as it became an idea openly discussed she went off it. Apparently she was only considering it for inheritance tax reason to help my sibling and I but she had thought about it and didn’t see why she should she told me with great irritation on learning I expected to be invited people are bonkers about marriage. Or maybe just my family.