To mind that DSS wants to have children so they can go to the wedding?

[snowisfallingallaroundus]

I suddenly feel old and judgy and didn't think I was.

DSS has been with girlfriend for a number of years. Lovely couple. Bought a house together last year and now announcing they are planning to start a family. Great. They then start saying they want a family before having a wedding as it would be more fun for the kids to be in attendance and involved.

I've surprised myself at my reaction. I've said nothing to them (and never would) but in my head I'm going WTF. House, kids then marriage? If marriage is important do it before children. You don't deliberately plan it the other way. Oddly them not getting married but having children didn't elicit any reaction in me.

AIBU? Am I old and out of touch? Is this how things are done now? Any insights into why I'm feeling such a reaction?

It doesn't really make sense, does it? What's a wedding about? It's either the legal stuff, which really should be sorted before having kids. Or it's about the formal commitment of the couple and sharing that with their family/community. Well, if they are living together/having kids/planning to be long term now, in five or ten years time the moment will have kind of passed. Everyone knows they are committed and having a family together and it ends up seeming like one of those marriage renewals.

I agree with them. It would be lovely having your children at your wedding day to share the special day with you.

Born out of wedlock non issue.

Lack of protections that marriage affords for the non working or poorer partner - big issue. Whoever is focussed on the frilly frock with the cute kids needs to grow up and get real.

My partner and I have been together 12years, engaged 10 years, 3 children together. Just not got around to the wedding part, no real reason, just happy how we are and prioritised spending money on other parts of our life.
I truly believe that having children together is a bigger commitment than marriage. You will always be parents, you don’t have to stay being a wife and husband.
But they’ve clearly never attended a wedding being responsible for small children, it’s hell.

@Ericaequites

It’s in very poor taste to have a large wedding if you have been living together and have children together. Illegitimacy is bad for society; on average, children do much better in two parent homes.

Wtaf are you talking about?

A wedding is a big party. A marriage is a legal contract. Once two people are married, they each have rights and their status as a couple is recognised in law. The legal side is far, far more important than the party, and yet people who need the legal protection put off getting it until they can afford the party. It doesn't make sense.

Once you are married, you have protection in the following situations.

1. A is a SAHP with no income. B works FT. B has an affair, or is otherwise obnoxious. A decides it's over. If they are married, A has rights over B's income and assets. If they're not, A doesn't. B would have an obligation to pay child support, but that's it. A is left high and dry.

1. A dies very suddenly. B is A's long-term partner. They were not married. B has no legal right at all to arrange the funeral, so if A's parents insist on doing it, that's how it has to be. If A didn't get round to making a will (and most UK adults don't) then B will have no rights to any of A's assets at all. If A had children, the children will probably inherit A's assets, not B. Is that what you want? If A and B were married and A left no will, B would probably inherit everything, with some going to the children in the case of a larger estate.

1. A falls ill and is put on life support but the medical staff don't think A will ever recover and want to switch the life support off. B is A's long-term partner. In the UK the NHS would mostly treat B as A's next of kin and B would make the decision. This would not necessarily apply in many other countries. Do you want your partner's family to make those decisions if your partner falls ill abroad?

You don't deliberately plan it the other way

I did. 🤷‍♀️

We have a toddler who was planned and very much wanted and are getting married this summer. Very happy and neither of us have been married before. This is exactly how we wanted things. We wanted to get married from the start but wanted to have ds first. You sound like my neighbour op - "don't you feel bad for doing things in the wrong order?"

I know people that say this and I feel like they’re saying it because they think people judge them having kids without being married, so it’s kinda “we know we aren’t married yet but don’t worry we will be at some point”

Like you said, I don’t really believe anyone plans it that way round

I don't think you're being judgemental either.

Unfortunately, lots of women have no idea just how much of a difference marriage can make until it's too late.

Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone, though.

YABU. What on earth has it got to do with you? You must be very old fashioned and probably very arrogant. Let them plan their lives as they wish and I suggest you keep your beak out.

If you believe in marriage as a sign of commitment, then it should come before kids. They deserve that.

@toocold54

I agree with them. It would be lovely having your children at your wedding day to share the special day with you.

I completely disagree! It would be lovely to have a wedding day without your children being there and having to think about them rather than yourself.

Your wddding day is the only day when it's all about YOU. I would have hated my kids to be there. Hell, I barely wanted any kids to be there!

Do you know, I felt like this when I was young. I was so excited to have a baby that I didn’t really care about the wedding bit. DH had been married before me (way before) so wasn’t bothered either way. The wedding idea felt like just a party at the time and not important. I was very wrong and did not understand the implications legally. Luckily it worked out fine for me but I had no idea.
Now I press to my two the importance of marriage before kids. No small reason than it would have been lovely to get married in the first flush of romance and lightheartedness (and spare cash) rather than thinking, jeez we better do it for legal stuff.

We planned it the other way round. We have the house, the child and are engaged but I'd rather have a new kitchen than a wedding.

We're committed and don't need to sign anything to prove that. We will, but we will when we want to rather than when society expects us to.

For many, marriage is entirely separate to religion, which is where much of the judgement re sex before marriage & children out of wedlock etc came from.

It makes literally no difference, in reality.

I think you’re probably feeling that if they’re committed enough to each other to have children together they should be committing to a marriage first, so they are bringing children into a relationship which on paper looks more stable. I kind of feel the same way, but I probably wouldn’t voice it to anyone thinking of doing that. There are the legal complications too of course.

They can choose to do it that way of course.

But it makes no sense from a legal perspective. Better to marry first. More protection for the woman.

Also planning a wedding is expensive and full on, when you have kids who has the time, money or inclination to organise a wedding. Certainly when they are young.

I got married when my son was about 13 that was ok, but when he was small? No way.

But maybe they will be ok. I've had friends Marty with small children so it's certainly possible. The bride (more often than the groom) was looking after children most of the day though.

Personally I'd prefer to do it without the children there. Easier and more fun.

We rushed to get married when we found out I was pregnant... legal importance aside, we knew we would never have time or money at any later stage to do it!

We had a DS in 2008, Married 2015, had another DS 2019...

Would it of made a difference if we did it other way round... Not to us at all...

To us having children was as big if not bigger commitment to each other then getting married.

You've had the reaction you've had. But yes, it's quite old-fashioned; it's OK to feel that way but please try and keep it private.

My 4 month old baby was at my wedding. This was because my boyfriend proposed when I was 3 months pregnant, and I said yes, but then started bleeding, and nearly collapsed. It was a relatively new relationship and I was stressed. We therefore decided to concentrate on trying to have the baby safely - which we did - rather than trying to get married before he was born.

We then got married and it was lovely. I have a picture of dh and me dancing, and a picture of ds and me 'dancing', and one of the loveliest ever pictures of my dh chatting to his mum while burping ds on his shoulder. It also meant that it never occurred to us to have a big naming party as everyone had met/acknowledged ds already.

I agree with you. I think it shows more responsibility and care towards future children to have the commitment and financial/legal implications that marriage brings in place before starting a family and think it’s poorly thought out to deliberately delay getting married so that children can be involved in the wedding. Seems the big wedding is more important than both the marriage and the children.

I think you are a bit out of date, yes. I think big white frou-frou weddings are out of date and a bit cheap these days also (even if they cost tens of thousands). No idea why I've started to think that. I feel small weddings are just a bit more 'real' for some reason. Not sure if I'm catching a trend on the wind subconsciously or just getting old and tired!

Oh incidentally, it is normal, and throughout human history of marriage has been normal, for a high proportion of brides to be pregnant. Not always for the most progressive of reasons, but it's not exactly unheard of.

The few couple I have known who did the kids before marriage thing never got around to the marriage. Usually it was the man who decided it was just a piece of paper and he was happy as he was. Most stayed together for a few years but eventually they split up when the kids were preteens.
Most of the women are now married to a different man. Most of the men I have lost contact with once their relationship failed.

Prioritising house and children before spending on a wedding is completely understandable to me.

Choosing to delay marriage to allow children to attend is a bit strange so that is prob why you feel weird about it.