Harassed and excluded by villagers

[thearctic]

Hello

Hoping to get some perspective from writing this down and to hear some other insights. At the moment the only solution seems to be to move house.

We live in a small village and another local family have been harassing us for several years. It began with a falling out over a shared right of way. They attempted to claim it as their own but we were able to prove it is shared. That came to a conclusion a year ago, but the other family seem unable to move on.

They have continued to harass our family and our children. There are verbal attacks, shouting/name calling, verbally abuse towards my children, following and watching us. No opportunity is missed; if we see them, they react.

We avoid them where possible, but there is a playground nearby which we all use. Avoiding them entirely would mean avoiding the playground and my children missing out on playing with friends.

The other family have developed friendships with our other neighbours and those neighbours are now frosty with us. Not all our neighbours, but a small handful.

The police take the view it's a civil matter.

Sorry, I cross posted.

Look, all of this can be filmed without making it clear that you are filming. It's very awkward but I really think you need to go for an ex parte civil injunction if it's affecting the way you carry out your daily lives with your children.

“We do feel prevented from gathering evidence or reacting”

Knew it.
I’ve been there OP and I’m only just getting over it.
I’ve had this evening so will stop talking - but you now have the combined might of mumsnet behind you and we are going to help.

I understand that the social exclusion is the worst aspect, but if you take out the civil injunction and they end up being fined, you might find public opinion slowly turns against them.

This won't be easy at all but you can't shut down now - that way depression and madness lies. It's not fair to your children. However, from personal experience, I would urge you to do the information gathering on your own, without your children, if things have escalated to the point where you're being verbally abused.

You really only need a few pieces of evidence to show the judge that this narrative has substance.

I know almost exactly how you feel.

Ask the vicar for help.
Tell him you would like to be able to video call him when the neighbours start up, so you can show him what is happening.
Only by finding a way to reveal their true colours can you move on.

I happen to be both a victim of similar abuse and a litigation solicitor
(Sadly, the latter isn’t much use when it happens to you- not least because I have to report every false allegation to my regulator)

ButI just wanted to say - and no disrespect to carsdoors and her great advice - that civil litigation may or may not be the way. Often it isn’t. Indeed, the OP has effectively already “won” a civil dispute and look where that’s left her!

I feel for you. I guess there's three options;

1. stay as you are. Although I can imagine it's pretty miserable for all of you, especially the kids.

2. try to make amends. Speak to them, maybe buy them some chocolates and ask them if you can all start again. BUT I doubt they will accept and even if they do, you probably don't want to know them now they've been so awful to you and your children.

3. move.

I would move. Life is too short and you can't change people. You don't need this negativity.

I would take advice from a solicitor immediately about whether or not you need to have a solicitor write to them making them formally aware that you find this behaviour distressing, intimidating and harassing. We think you do but our experience of this is from your side, not professional.

You don't want to end up in a situation where they could say they didn't realise.

Small cameras sewed into a Cath Kidston backpack or CCTV showing they're waiting outside your home - dire to have to do this but once you have the footage, you can do something in the civil courts which the police will then have to enforce if they breach.

OP do you want to keep talking or digest?

You have internalised this I think.

But we’ll change that :) :) :)

Evidence gathering is unbelievably emotionally fraught.
Who outside the village knows about this in real life? I’m guessing no-one?

civil litigation may or may not be the way. Often it isn’t.

Why is that?

We have found it slow...but effective.

I’m pleased for you cardoor, that’s great.

This is probably hugely unhelpful but it depends on quite a few variables.

To put it another way, you might have overcome some evidential/psychological problems easily, and because they were easy for you, you don’t think about them.

But for another litigant those hurdles would be différent/bigger. Does that make sense?

Yes. Thanks.

They have all felt like huge obstacles, actually! But I don't want to take over the OP's thread. They really haven't been straightforward so I understand the enormity of it. There's bound to be lots I don't know. I'm just not aware of another route for her. I've probably said all I can helpfully say - wish I could help more.

But genuinely cardoor congratulations on you victory. Sometimes the good guys do win!

“They have all felt like huge obstacles, actually! “

I bet.

Let’s wait for OP to come back.

If evidence is gathered by filming them, what is to stop them countering with a harassment claim for filming them? It seems to be a murky area and I can’t risk giving them anything to pin on us.

They seem to be watching and waiting for us to put a foot wrong

Litigation has been threatened in the past. They played games and tied us up in litigation over the right of way and i don’t think I could go through that again. They had an aggressive and unreasonable solicitor who they will no doubt use again.

I've just found this online - it specifically relates to the UK:

"Video Recording Without Consent UK
Taking photographs or shooting video in public places is not illegal unless it’s for nefarious purposes. Keep in mind that many seemingly public places such as Malls are actually privately owned, in this case you’ll have to follow the rules that they have put in place.

Taking photos or video of someone where there is the expectation of privacy is a breach of privacy laws. Examples of this would be in someone’s home."

You can find it here: recordinglaw.com/recording-laws-uk/

I agree. It is great that you were able to take civil action and it worked for you @cardoorslamming.

They know they're harassing you. They seem very confident to shout abuse at you when you're out and about. Evidence is everything. As others have suggested a covert body worn camera or two would catch them. So don't alter your routines too much atm unless it's escalating. Get those cameras working for you before they suss you're getting evidenc. Do keep a detailed log as well: there maybe other cameras/witnesses around your village that could help corroborate their harassment.

“what is to stop them countering with a harassment claim for filming them?”

First of all, I don’t practice this particular kind of litigation, so please - if I start giving real advice put it down to the and ignore.

I think OP we need to simply accept as fact that of course they will blame you and claim harassment. You said this upthread: “Broadly speaking they have suggested mental illness and that they are being harassed by us”.

May I ask - at what point did the original dispute about the access way settle? Angry letters? Solicitors letters? Court process begun? Judicial determination?

What we need to start with is the objective evidence of the history

“Litigation has been threatened in the past. They played games and tied us up in litigation over the right of way and i don’t think I could go through that again. They had an aggressive and unreasonable solicitor who they will no doubt use again.”

Aha.
Can you just nail it down for me? What was the subject matter of the threatened litigation? And what was the litigation that they tied you darling – was it threatened or were proceedings actually issued and served?

Agree 100% with Bettyboop too.

Sorry for all the posts am on a Sunday night mission now to get these bastards out of your head :)

I've just had a quick look at the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and it looks as though it may well cover what the neighbours are doing to you. And that it wouldn't cover you videoing them without their knowledge (in a public place).
Why not get some good video footage without your neighbours realising and then take it to a solicitor and take it from there?
Have a look at the legislation yourselves. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/2A

You definitly need front and rear dashcam that is movement activated, (put on incase of car accidents of course ) and a ring doorbell that covers your path and gate for the collection of starers. At least that way you can peek at whats going on from the safety of home.

Darling?
Down in!

Sorry!

I think you need to somehow (counselling an option?) change your mindset.

Right now you are too scared to put a stop to their behaviour and therefore it allows them to continue and escalate - they are fully aware you are too scared to stop them.

You need to very slowly claw back that control. One step at a time and build your confidence with it.

No one should have to be scared to stop harassment for fear they will end up suffering more.

Start by simply collecting the evidence (film and diary) you do not need to act now if you don't feel you can. You may find just having that there as a back up gives you a little more confidence.