To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

@sst1234 brilliant

Wow Christmas eve off for grief every year. That's I'm sorry to say a bit 🤬 it gets my dander up when people want it for the children every year, so anyone who is childless can go bog off cos you got no chance. Just because you are childless doesn't mean you have no family. Share the time off. You also want most of the six week summer as holiday. Well the baron woman ( me) want a summer too

Or my other favourite - ‘I had an affair with a married man and I’m now distraught because he DUMPED ME and went back to his wife 😭 😭 😭’

sst1234
I agree on some of those situations.

But I also think in some of them, the relatives around the mum are out of order.

It doesn't matter that my parenting differs from a relative's parenting. I'm not going to be an arse and ignore simple instructions from them if I'm with their children, and I wouldn't expect them to ignore me regarding my children.

If a relative/parent says to me 'Lola, we find chocolate sends DC hyper and then they are a pain in the bum later when they crash' or 'DC has eczema so please use the soap replacement in their bag', then if I decided to ignore them, it wouldn't be the relative/friend who was lacking personal responsibility by challenging me. I would be at fault for being an arse.

You're right about some people being precious and pushing the alpha mum 'my child does no wrong'thing, but I also think there's plenty of threads where relatives and friends could easily have avoided creating a situations by just following simple requests from parents instead of turning everything into a battle or undermining the parent.

Just wading in again here briefly because I’ve just seen something on morning telly which I think illustrates this well.

So the ASA has guidance for the use of beauty filters in advertising, which has been around for a few years. All fair enough.

On BBC morning live today they were talking about it, and interviewing members of the public about the use of filters on SM (insta, FB, Snapchat). Many of the comments were along the lines of “protecting children” and “the impact on children’s mental health” and “not showing your true face is wrong”. All very dramatic stuff for what is essentially a photo-editing function on a social media platform which one has no obligation to use.

I’ll probably get flamed for this but what on earth happened to the idea that parents can explain this falsity to kids, that loads of online images are heavily edited and unrealistic? SM is a tool, we need to teach our kids how to use it safely and adjust their expectations of what is real and what isn’t.

Is it just me?! I know there had been an explosion in childhood mental illness in recent years and this could be one reason why, but isn’t it just another aspect of modern life we need to equip kids to be able
to deal with?

Re obesity, so the whole of the developed world has stopped taking personal responsibility and it's mere coincidence that poverty and obesity go hand in hand? We ignore all of the bodies of research that says differently and expert opinions? Why on this subject and not other subjects, like baby weaning, or Covid? Why does personal, uninformed opinion suddenly trump?

To @ColdBrightClearMorning and all if the other 'resilient' posters. I've had a traumatic life, which started with a very abusive childhood. I was super resilient and my work/energy was through the roof. I bounced back, again and again. I had no one, my DH died from an aggressive cancer, so I was parenting three children, two with SN, properly alone. Then I hit major health issues at the same time as menopause. I was all resilienced out. I have CF and I'm obese. It's an ongoing fighting battle. So one day you might just get knocked off that smug pedestal and find you can't overcome what life throws at you, particularly as you age and are going through the first bit of the menopause.

In previous generations people's lives were much more controlled, religion did that. Women were just thought as good home makers if they never wanted to leave the house. Life was more structured and there was less pressure. People didn't have to be all things to all people. Think about what we ask of children and young people and compare it to life from the turn of the 19th Century. I don't think everyone is cut out for life today. It's a view taken by sociologists.

@MrsBotibolsCruise, they've been trying to ban airbrushing since the 80's. It does give a false illusion to how people look, which isn't good for mental health. What's your issue with regulating what we know is harmful?

Air brushing is not a new thing, whale bone corsets, wigs, tiny shoes, beauty spots. Throughout the ages we have hidden our flaws. We are not all beautiful on the outside. Thats just life. We can now change cosmetically what nature didnt get right. Unfortunately it seems to me that people want to all be carbon copies of each other. Shame I like a bit of different, I like the wrongness in faces, I find it captivating

And another - ‘I co sleep with and breastfeed my 4 year old, and I’m absolutely shattered and drained by them’

My argument is that it’s not “harmful” per say. It’s something that children should be educated about. If that’s your logic then we may as well ban all advertising for all sorts of reasons.

And while we’re at it why not ban influencers for contributing to poor mental health because they portray a “perfect” idealistic life most of us could never aspire to (whilst getting paid through advertising and sponsorship so not actually having a real job ....)? where does one draw the line?

@Ponoka7 💐

@Ponoka7

Re obesity, so the whole of the developed world has stopped taking personal responsibility and it's mere coincidence that poverty and obesity go hand in hand? We ignore all of the bodies of research that says differently and expert opinions? Why on this subject and not other subjects, like baby weaning, or Covid? Why does personal, uninformed opinion suddenly trump?

To @ColdBrightClearMorning and all if the other 'resilient' posters. I've had a traumatic life, which started with a very abusive childhood. I was super resilient and my work/energy was through the roof. I bounced back, again and again. I had no one, my DH died from an aggressive cancer, so I was parenting three children, two with SN, properly alone. Then I hit major health issues at the same time as menopause. I was all resilienced out. I have CF and I'm obese. It's an ongoing fighting battle. So one day you might just get knocked off that smug pedestal and find you can't overcome what life throws at you, particularly as you age and are going through the first bit of the menopause.

In previous generations people's lives were much more controlled, religion did that. Women were just thought as good home makers if they never wanted to leave the house. Life was more structured and there was less pressure. People didn't have to be all things to all people. Think about what we ask of children and young people and compare it to life from the turn of the 19th Century. I don't think everyone is cut out for life today. It's a view taken by sociologists.

Erm... are you trying to make me feel bad or call me smug for saying I’m resilient?

Didn’t once say I could guarantee I’d cope with everything bad that could happen in my life, I can’t predict the future.

Bit nasty.

but really, why would they bother when they can get equal or more money for staying at home.

Would love to see some evidence to back that nonsense claim up

@Ponoka7

Re obesity, so the whole of the developed world has stopped taking personal responsibility and it's mere coincidence that poverty and obesity go hand in hand? We ignore all of the bodies of research that says differently and expert opinions? Why on this subject and not other subjects, like baby weaning, or Covid? Why does personal, uninformed opinion suddenly trump?

To @ColdBrightClearMorning and all if the other 'resilient' posters. I've had a traumatic life, which started with a very abusive childhood. I was super resilient and my work/energy was through the roof. I bounced back, again and again. I had no one, my DH died from an aggressive cancer, so I was parenting three children, two with SN, properly alone. Then I hit major health issues at the same time as menopause. I was all resilienced out. I have CF and I'm obese. It's an ongoing fighting battle. So one day you might just get knocked off that smug pedestal and find you can't overcome what life throws at you, particularly as you age and are going through the first bit of the menopause.

In previous generations people's lives were much more controlled, religion did that. Women were just thought as good home makers if they never wanted to leave the house. Life was more structured and there was less pressure. People didn't have to be all things to all people. Think about what we ask of children and young people and compare it to life from the turn of the 19th Century. I don't think everyone is cut out for life today. It's a view taken by sociologists.

Very sad, but my thread is specifically about people with problems they can change, but choose not to. So I think you’ve misunderstood. Sending love

@MrsBotibolsCruise

Just wading in again here briefly because I’ve just seen something on morning telly which I think illustrates this well.

So the ASA has guidance for the use of beauty filters in advertising, which has been around for a few years. All fair enough.

On BBC morning live today they were talking about it, and interviewing members of the public about the use of filters on SM (insta, FB, Snapchat). Many of the comments were along the lines of “protecting children” and “the impact on children’s mental health” and “not showing your true face is wrong”. All very dramatic stuff for what is essentially a photo-editing function on a social media platform which one has no obligation to use.

I’ll probably get flamed for this but what on earth happened to the idea that parents can explain this falsity to kids, that loads of online images are heavily edited and unrealistic? SM is a tool, we need to teach our kids how to use it safely and adjust their expectations of what is real and what isn’t.

Is it just me?! I know there had been an explosion in childhood mental illness in recent years and this could be one reason why, but isn’t it just another aspect of modern life we need to equip kids to be able
to deal with?

I'm with you. But it seems kids today must live in a cotton wool world, shielded from everything, even manipulated images. Far from it being the parents' responsibility for explaining that those images don't reflect reality. Oh no. It's the fault of the people who edit and post those images. It's always someone else's fault.

Can only afford a subsistence poverty diet - clearly a lack of resilience

Paid poverty wages and most of it spent on parasitic landlords - clearly a lack of resilience

Underfunded NHS and its mental health provision resulting in undiagnosed people desperately needing to access support systems - clearly lacking in resilience

Underfunded education system with an over importance put on achieving meaningless grades instead of educating the children, not providing enough funding for teachers to help the children put in their care for hours a day - clearly a lack of resilience

OP fair to say I dont think you have a scooby

@Wondermule

And another - ‘I co sleep with and breastfeed my 4 year old, and I’m absolutely shattered and drained by them’

There’s a massive martyrdom culture in motherhood I’ve found. Not parenthood, motherhood. Mums almost semi bragging about how drained and exhausted they are and how their child keeps them awake all night and they haven’t had a good night’s sleep in four years and they’ve always fed to sleep but now it isn’t working and oh no, who could have seen this coming...

I hate that culture. As a mum you’re a person too and your sleep and wellbeing also matter, it’s not healthy to celebrate your own needs not even being on the list in your own family.

Yep... think they’ve very much misunderstood my comments too. Or wilfully chosen to cherrypick.

I'm with you. But it seems kids today must live in a cotton wool world, shielded from everything, even manipulated images. Far from it being the parents' responsibility for explaining that those images don't reflect reality. Oh no. It's the fault of the people who edit and post those images. It's always someone else's fault.

Do you think advertising agencies should be unregulated? Make up any old claims about products just in the name of selling you something?

@JustAnotherPoster00 I can’t answer for the poster you’ve quoted, but I was referring to advertising practices within the scope of the law. There are plenty of practices which are deemed acceptable under the ASA that could be argued may contribute to mental ill health.

I have definitely noticed that on many threads it’s seen as taboo to say that you think someone is making bad choices, and there’s always a few people determined to make excuses for pretty awful things
I agree. Anything that amounts to encouraging the OP to consider the impact of their own actions on the situation is quickly deemed as unsympathetic and at times bullying.

We have lost the will to self-reflect in an unemotional way and any type of constructive criticism is deemed as an evil act.

I remember a 1to1 with a boss I found a bit difficult (as the whole team did) but respected to a certain level. He was quite positive as a whole but mention an area of weakness which hurt me to the core. Ironically, it was a criticism that I very much thought of him!

As all, my initial reaction was defensive and my focus was on my view that he should practice what he preached. However, I became more self-conscious of what he'd said and as I reflected in relevant times, I realised that he has made a very valid point and that indeed, it was an area I needed to improve on. I actually felt grateful at the time that he bothered to bring it up.

This was 16 years ago and since then, I am quite ok at accepting constructive criticism. It doesn't mean accept it all, but there usually is some truth in the foundation of it. I find that however hurtful, it's the best way to move forward.

I'm finding it really hard to apply the same nowadays because the moment you raise one negative point, even amongst 10 positives, even with softness, people go straight into defensive mode and then aggression. Work appraisals become redundant because reading any points for improvement leads to instant defensiveness and sulking. I've seen managers refusing to raise any obvious areas of concern with their staff because they can't be asked to deal with a potential accusation of harrassenent or bullying having to deal with HR.

Sadly it starts at school with teachers being complained about the second they raise concerns to parents. My friend teacher says that sadly, she can almost always foresee which parents this is going to be from the attitude of the child. It doesn't stop her because she believes that being honest is best for the child, but she is exhausted by the battles this lead to. Thankfully, her Head is supportive and values the same principes which she applies with her staff.

Why do people find it so hard to take constructive criticism?

It’s exhausting isn’t it @dontdisturbmenow? You could post about having seen a parent give their baby a Coca Cola and there’d be posts giving a hundred justifications for why they did it and why nobody should judge.

I actually think there are certain things we SHOULD judge and not force ourselves to be tolerant of. Over feeding your child to the point of being obese for example is neglect, if not abuse. There may be many factors and reasons why somebody does that but it doesn’t change what it is. There are factors and reasons why people do all kinds of horrible things but explanations aren’t excuses. We all make decisions influenced by many external factors but they don’t eliminate personal responsibility and decision making and it’s really infantilising imo.

Over feeding your child to the point of being obese for example is neglect, if not abuse

But where do you go with that, even if that is the case? Why do you think whole families are obese? Why do you imagine the parents would be seriously overweight and the child slim? Is it worse if the parents are slim but the child is obese? What is the purpose of the comment other than to make yourself feel superior? It sure as hell doesn't help anyone very fat having it pointed out to them, or that their children are fat. They already know.

Plus the fact it affects so many people that there is clearly something else going on IN SOCIETY which cannot be dealt with purely by asking people to take personal responsibility?

I think a far bigger issue in society is that there is not enough corporate social responsibility and government accountability.

Work appraisals become redundant because reading any points for improvement leads to instant defensiveness and sulking

I'm not surprised. Work appraisals are often ridiculous and agonising and just a pointless corporate tick box exercise that don't help anyone.