To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

100% correct it’s never anyone’s fault it’s always someone else.

Plus people have such a sense of entitlement ‘it’s my human right to have children, chose which school they go to, go on holiday every year, own a house etc etc.
Rant over

Poor parenting, obesity, ASB - all blamed on everything else but the actual factual reasons is why all of the above are so prevalent now - it used to be those in the minority but last 10-20 years have allowed the blame culture and lack of personal responsibility which is why crime, obesity, ASB etc is coming to a housing estate near you - literally breeding

I know I’m fat because I’m a greedy bastard and hate exercise.

When you’re PM lies daily; has an unknown amount of kids; left his wife battling cancer to shack up in No.10 with a woman sacked for sc*wing her expenses; have a Home Sec sacked for borderline espionage; a Heath sec that broke the law and is still in post... we shouldn’t be too surprised people can’t be arsed...

How many accidental deaths or injuries would be acceptable if we do go "back"?
How many neglected,abused etc would be acceptable if we do go "back"?

Things didn't change on a whim or for no particular reason. Most changes were implemented through the years,they took a long time and they were mostly spurred on by tragedies.

What you describe is nice but not necessary to a good,well adjusted and happy childhood.

The situation as it stands now is not producing healthy, well-adjusted kids, though. And yes, there are plenty of places where kids have more autonomy and more expectations, and have better outcomes, without pandemics of children being abused or run over etc.

There is all kinds of research to show that the ultra risk-adverse, litigation approach to childrearing is damaging and not even in line with accurate risk assessments. It's a net contributor to childhood obesity, lack of time spent outdoors, and lack of exercise, the knock-on effects of which are extremely serious.

It's also related to a really significant uptick in children suffering from anxiety, among other things, so this idea that somehow it's better for MH is pretty much bollocks.

Wow! Your post is totally how I feel! Thank you!
Thank you!!

Wow this thread. Have read the majority but admittedly not all before anyone tells me to rtft!

My thoughts are that what a lot of young people assume to be anxiety is just nerves or low self esteem. It can be a good thing that forces you to grow but by self diagnosing you aren't helping yourself or just becoming a general puddle of a human being.

That said, anxiety / depression does generally affect a lot of us at some point or another in our lives and it's great we talk to people about it.

When I was younger it was just not something you ever thought about. If you were feeling miserable, it was because that's how life can be sometimes.

I do think (and have seen in school leavers) that this self diagnosed, badge of honour anxiety is just a load of nonsense really. It's a way of saying "I'm special and you need to treat me thus".

Saw something at the weekend that said if you surround yourself with miserable people, you are more likely to be miserable yourself and vice versa. Maybe we need to start parenting were kids are urged to be upbeat while dealing with it rather than just endlessly talking about themselves and their problems.

Hallelujah! And Amen.

My job involves giving people advice on how to claim certain benefits. I am always amazed at how many people are dyslexic and cannot fill out the form, say they have absolutely no one to help them do it but have a smart phone, come in with family or friends and have online banking and google info while they are sitting with me.

There's a difference between someone who's tried (and failed for whatever reason) to get a diagnosis and people who never bothered.
You can't judge random strangers obviously but you CAN judge whether or not a colleague is a piss taker because you'd know their general attitude towards their work...

@SmokedDuck

What people are saying is should we really inflict that pain on young people deliberately so that older people don't call them a "snowflake"?

But the things that are apparently counting as "pain" by this measure are crazy. Not having to be on time? Not having to pass in assignments on the due date? Having to talk to someone when it made you nervous, or problem solve on your own without parental help at times? Failing an assignment when you didn't do what was necessary?

These are the kinds of natural consequences and experiences that have begun to disapear for many children. It's completely normal for school chldren to pass in work at any point in the school year and expect to get full marks. Many bright children don't really have to extend themselves at school at all to do well, and are shocked and don't know how to deal with it when they get real work at university or a job.

People aren't suggesting children go through abuse, but that they have some normal experiences of being responsible for themselves, which have become increasingly uncommon.

Good post.

My ds is autistic. He struggles with some aspects of life due to this. We support him to overcome this as a team (college and me as did school previously) but he didn't 'get away' with things because of his autism.

He wasn't punished for meltdowns etc but he was made to work on his ability to self regulate which he found hard.

There's lots of things he doesn't manage due to anxiety. That's fine. But he isn't allowed to use it as an excuse for poor behaviour.

This really is a circular argument.

We are at a point where people are being berated for not taking personal responsibility for their mental health difficulties by getting diagnoses and following approved treatment plans. But those who do also face the idea that their issues aren't really mental health difficulties but are falling into the trap of the pathologising of normal human reactions / emotions, which the medical profession are simultaneously denying and over-egging.

Is the concept of personal responsibility actually a bit of a no win situation in many cases?

Affecting personal change is somewhat dependent on the framework one operates within.

There is alot of judgement evidenced on this thread about poor life choices and resistance to change - but very little constructive input as to how change can be meaningfully communicated and implemented, beyond "Suck it up Buttercup".

I've said I agree that people should be empowered to effect change from within, but what are the solutions? How do you give people the confidence in their own power to change without them feeling under attack and therefore more resistant?

This is the kind of therapy the snowflake generation needs. YANBU.
Lack of resilience pisses me off too. Yes, it's hard, sometimes you will fail, no you're not perfect and you can't always win.
I reckon British school sports days where everyone wins and there's no real competition is the root of all this!

@MamaAffrika

This is the kind of therapy the snowflake generation needs. YANBU. Lack of resilience pisses me off too. Yes, it's hard, sometimes you will fail, no you're not perfect and you can't always win. I reckon British school sports days where everyone wins and there's no real competition is the root of all this!

Every generation has been the "snowflake" generation since written word started being recorded.

Buses were at some point considered the starting point of this "weakness".

I think the worst I've heard is an employer answering the phone herself because her graduate trainees don't feel comfortable answering the phone. If only we'd had that luxury! Maybe my mental health would be better. Maybe it is taking personal responsibility to avoid tasks you dont like much at work.

Its all through society - customer service is crap because it is never the companies fault, things cant be done because of a boat load of excuses, etc etc. I dont think it helps that we have people in senior positions (politics, celebrities) modeling this.

Yes lots of grown adults avoid any personal responsibility. No, it’s not surprising that they do this.

Some adults are forced to live in an infantilised state for life - no home ownership prospects, no chance of a good career. Just basically waiting for state handouts each month. Yes they may be “lucky” enough to get a minimum wage zero hours job where they are most probably treated like garbage, but really, why would they bother when they can get equal or more money for staying at home.

If the state treats people like overgrown teenagers, then that is how they will act.

If we want people to take responsibility for themselves, we need to tackle our obscene wealth divide and start making it pay to work. Once people have enough to support themselves, taking adult responsibility for their lives (saving, getting a property, etc) will naturally follow.

@NiceGerbil

On mental health.

Things are very different now. With 24 hour news and the internet there is a constant reminder that awful things are going on all over the place all the time.

Humans are meant to live in smallish groups. Hearing all this stuff all the time makes us feel powerless.

My DD curriculum at secondary is incredibly depressing. Drama was a play about knife crime. Talks on internet danger and mugging. Sexual predators. Global warming. She tells me and we laugh at how it's just so constantly grim! I mean what will that do to them?

Also in the past around the world people have always done stuff to numb things. In the UK it was booze, going back God only knows how long. In the past tinctures containing opium were available. Gin palaces. In the 60s/ 70s, 'mothers little helper'- valium. Smoking.

People self medicated. They took the edge off. Now booze and fags are out of fashion, and MH problems are well known, and treatments are available, is it any surprise that numbers of people diagnosed has gone through the roof.

At least 4 out of 10 women get post natal depression. Peri natal depression is being recognised more.

Men are being encouraged to seek help. Their suicide rates are the highest out of all groups.

Modern life in many ways just does not suit humans.

I totally agree. I truly believe life is meant to be so much simpler.

I think we just expect more out of life now. Once over (not good) people were happy with a job a rented home, family, very few possessions and a trip to the coast twice a year. Now we have too much, clothes, shoes, gadgets we are surrounded by crap plus with Google we dont converse we don't need to hunt out knowledge, just press a few buttons. We all expect too much from life and when it goes wrong we implode. My first home I furnished with hand me downs, I was grateful. It didnt matter that it was miss matched. I worked two jobs to pay the bills. It was hard but I kept my head above water. Now that wouldnt happen, just get credit credit credit. Look at the pandemic,
I JUST WANT A HOLIDAY!
Well you cant put your life on hold!
It's my time, its not fair.
Second and first world wars, children of fifteen lied to go to war to protect their country and family (not saying that's a good thing )now your hard pressed to get them to wear a mask. What do we expect, at school nobody loses at sports, Christmas is a bombardment of shit, told your perfect your whole childhood. Then boom! Life is all roses it has its wonders but also plenty of thorns.

Absolutely agree

I've noticed people in their 60s at work mirror this behavior from the younger generations. It's a temper tantrum and very narcissistic at the heart of it.
Then there is fear of change, of success, of having nothing to moan about.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Absolutely agree

I've noticed people in their 60s at work mirror this behavior from the younger generations. It's a temper tantrum and very narcissistic at the heart of it.
Then there is fear of change, of success, of having nothing to moan about.

So older people behaving badly is still the "young 'uns" fault?

I’ve thought of another one.

One of my colleagues’ dads died just before Christmas, about 7 or 8 years ago. I think he was 70s odd and quite unwell, so obviously sad but not tragically young.

Anyway, despite it usually being an every-other-year system, she has had every Christmas Eve off work ever since, at the expense of others, saying she needs it due to her grief and how she can’t bear to see anyone else enjoying it.

I mean seriously? The first year, yes absolutely - but shes still at it years later, meaning people that actually enjoy Christmas Eve never get the day off.

Having and raising children is a perfect example of where people look for excuses and blame other. Thread after thread on here where women leave a relationship with kids from a feckless man and walk straight into another setup with another feckless man, get pregnant and then complain about the dad. Ok, so this man is feckless, but how many times do you need to learn the same lesson, how many times will you ignore the signs. Cue a sea of gushing female solidarity sending hugs and sympathy to OP as though she is just the victim of bad luck.
Here’s another, OP comes on here, often ‘raging’ because a teacher at school upset her child, or a neighbour’s child looked at them wrong way or worse still, one the grandparents fed the child chocolate. Actually one poster was goin mental because her dad had let her child have a sip of coffee. I mean, just imagine the neglect and abuse that amounts to. OP’s thinks she is the woman in the history or time to have a child. Cue concurring mothers who pump up OP to get her best alpha mom act on. And then OP wonders why her child grows up to be the useless feckless adult who cannot take care of themselves and have bad behaviour and outlook on life.

@Wondermule she’s a pisstaker and surely it’s your managers fault for not nipping it in the bud
The rest of you should immediately submit a claim at not being able to get Christmas off