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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think personal responsibility no longer exists

609 replies

Wondermule · 27/02/2021 20:15

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

OP posts:
dontdisturbmenow · 28/02/2021 18:22

What a refreshing thread!

Itstheprinciple · 28/02/2021 18:41

No they aren't right 100% of the time. But they are right a heck of a lot more than posts on here would have you believe.

Violinist64 · 28/02/2021 18:49

There is a thread at the moment about a poster worrying about upsetting her adult son because she lost her temper with him. She works and does all the housework and cooking and woke him when she was hoovering. When he spoke rudely to her about it the worm turned and now she is worrying about it. This situation encapsulates how far things have gone in the wrong direction and the entitlement of her son beggars belief.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 28/02/2021 18:52

@Violinist64

There is a thread at the moment about a poster worrying about upsetting her adult son because she lost her temper with him. She works and does all the housework and cooking and woke him when she was hoovering. When he spoke rudely to her about it the worm turned and now she is worrying about it. This situation encapsulates how far things have gone in the wrong direction and the entitlement of her son beggars belief.
She's not worrying on her own though is she? It's because her husband made comments and told her off for it. She even stood her ground in front of him. It's only because of his comments that she had a wobble.
TheBigGreenDinosaur · 28/02/2021 18:54

I agree with the OP. I have managed a team with a range of ages and it always seemed to be the younger ones outraged at being asked to do something slightly out of their job spec, and if there was even a whisper of a few snowflakes it would be those that “couldn’t possibly make it into work”. I once had to have a very embarrassing conversation with someone who was outraged they didn’t get a promotion and I had to explain that generally we expect people to not be late to work regularly and not slope off early before the shift is over 🤦‍♀️ This person had been pulled up on this many times previously and still expected the promotion.

Wondermule · 28/02/2021 18:59

I also believe that most people in life are either a net ‘giver’ or a net ‘receiver’, in terms of the people around them.

Some people just lurch from one avoidable personal crisis to another, expecting those around them to have bottomless reserves of energy to support them, whether that be emotionally/financially/physically. They don’t really think of the toll it takes on those around them as they’re used to being the needy one or victim, and presume it is simply everyone else’s role to help them.

Then you have the givers who usually have their own problems but are still expected to dig deep to help their car crash of a relative/friend. They are undervalued and at the mercy of these emotional vampires.

At least if the givers refused to help those who refuse to help themselves, one set of people would be happy. But the takers drag the givers down with them.

OP posts:
Iflyaway · 28/02/2021 19:11

effects while in the womb like drugs and alcohol which weren't widely recognised 20/30 /40 years ago)

DS is 30, I certainly knew about fetal alcohol syndrome when I was pregnant.

Homeschoolsoutforsummer · 28/02/2021 19:30

People are constantly calling out posters for ageism yet are happy to lay into the younger generation. I have 3 teens who are all incredible people as are their friends. They’ve coped as well as can be during the pandemic for example and are far more selfless and care more about others than the majority of my peers (boomers) do. I think we are the most selfish generation that’s ever existed and are now blaming the generation that we ourselves bought up for their flaws. You get useless people of all ages but statistically the young have it much tougher than we did- give them a break.

doctorhamster · 28/02/2021 19:37

I do mostly agree with you op, although I also think that people of all ages are under a lot of pressure these days. In school everyone is expected to excel. There's no recognition any more that not everyone it capable of straight A's and a high flying career job. Kids are pushed and pushed to meet targets which for some of them will always be completely impossible.

Then you enter the world of work and with mobile phones and the internet you can't ever switch off from it. You can sit at home and check your work emails on your mobile. There's a culture of never taking your lunch break. You put up with it because if you complain your employer can get rid of you, advertise your job and get 100+ applications.

On top of that parents are on social media being told that they should be perfect and their children should always be happy and smiling. They have 24 hour access to stories of knife crime/bullying/child abuse etc and it breeds this anxiety that actually, if you take your eye off the ball even for a minute that could happen to your child. Hence helicopter parenting.

The modern world is very much to blame.

Maverickess · 28/02/2021 19:40

@Wondermule

I also believe that most people in life are either a net ‘giver’ or a net ‘receiver’, in terms of the people around them.

Some people just lurch from one avoidable personal crisis to another, expecting those around them to have bottomless reserves of energy to support them, whether that be emotionally/financially/physically. They don’t really think of the toll it takes on those around them as they’re used to being the needy one or victim, and presume it is simply everyone else’s role to help them.

Then you have the givers who usually have their own problems but are still expected to dig deep to help their car crash of a relative/friend. They are undervalued and at the mercy of these emotional vampires.

At least if the givers refused to help those who refuse to help themselves, one set of people would be happy. But the takers drag the givers down with them.

Yes, in principle I agree, however with the experience of only me to draw on (so by no means universal!) I think you can change as much as you can, and yet still be labelled a 'net taker' forever more. I am, by my mother especially, I was a self absorbed bloody mess quite frankly in my teens and early twenties, I had a lot of issues and both mental health and social, for want of a better word. I put her through some trying times, I know I did. It wasn't intentional (as she thought it was), wasn't designed to piss her off, but yes looking back I was immature in my reactions to things and selfish, and appallingly bad with money. And here I am at 41, and my mother still has the same opinion of me as when I was 21. I'm not rich, but I manage my money, it's a very rare occasion that I need to borrow money, I've got myself to a position where I can buy a new washing machine for instance, with the bit I have saved. I'm on minimum wage and a single parent, but I've managed to save something against stuff like that happening. I don't rely on her in any way now, as I bloody shouldn't at 41, but she doesn't seem able to move away from that image she has. So while I've done what she always wanted me to do, and 'sorted myself out', become independent (some years ago now) maintained it, to her, I'm still the same, she can't see it. It's sad because I don't ask even for advice or talk about things because her first instinct is to assume I'm wanting her to bail me out of a problem, when I'm not, I'm just looking for someone to bounce ideas off of, or for advice, but she's straight in trying to 'solve' it when that's not what I need. Then berates me for it. Maybe though, that was the problem all along? She never let me deal with the problems, rather jumped in and did it for me, though it has always been clear not to protect me as such, but rather to play the martyr and feel hard done by. I can see the same pattern emerging with my brother.
LouJ85 · 28/02/2021 19:50

@Nicolastuffedone

You see it on here all the time! ‘Victim blaming!’ Whenever anyone alludes to the fact that someone has got themselves into a really stupid situation that, which if they’d only used a modicum of common sense, they’d never have found themselves in, someone always turns up shouting ‘oh! Nice bit of victim blaming there!’ Well, y’know, sometimes, it really is your own fault...!

I agree with this. "Victim blaming" is thrown around a lot on here.

VeloVelo · 28/02/2021 19:52

I actually find that with an increased focus on mental health and well being in the workplace, people are becoming much less supportive. It's all about my mental health, my feeling overwhelmed, my being unfairly or unkindly treated. The same people who bang on about this are incredibly disinterested in anyone else's anxiety and do not step up when others struggle other than saying they should take a 'mental health' day. It's so self-entered and incredibly shallow. I am working with some new, young employees aged 23-28. I'm sorry to say that those in this age category who went to school in the UK are acting in an incredibly entitled way, it's ridiculous. The young employee who did their A-levels abroad and their degree in the UK are very much on the ball, don't turn their nose up on 'boring' tasks, they get on with it and are real 'go getters'. The home educated ones are all super sensitive, very easily offended based on whatever minority they thunk they belong to and complain, complain complain. Give it a few more years and this focus on mental wellbeing at work will lead to many jobs being repacked by robots and AI. The lack of resolubility and grit is very regrettable. I don't blame these young people, it's just that many have been so pampered and have never had to really fight for something. They are basically just entitled and incredibly dull because of it.

RapunzelHadExtensions · 28/02/2021 19:58

YANBU. The chocolate buttons thread was ridiculous, you can't plead ignorance about healthy eating and kids anymore.

Homeschoolsoutforsummer · 28/02/2021 20:05

This is a very interesting article I think www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-millennials-eare-the-generation-thats-fun-to-hate

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 28/02/2021 20:06

Everything that you're saying about the 20's /30's people of today your parents and grandparents said about you and your peers. Do you agree with their opinion of your generation?

MercyBooth · 28/02/2021 20:38

"How can you tell the difference @LolaSmiles ?

That’s kind of the issue here. We are talking more about mental health than physical"

Well @Wondermule if they had a breakdown/meltdown at work which you were on the business end of that might help you to tell the difference.

MercyBooth · 28/02/2021 20:40

And you cant moan at people taking time off work while at the same time moaning about personal responsibility while expecting some to self isolate off work in a pandemic. You are painting a picture of yourself as a goalpost mover who will never be satisfied.

Wondermule · 28/02/2021 20:44

@MercyBooth

"How can you tell the difference *@LolaSmiles* ?

That’s kind of the issue here. We are talking more about mental health than physical"

Well @Wondermule if they had a breakdown/meltdown at work which you were on the business end of that might help you to tell the difference.

So we can only be certain someone is mentally ill enough to be off work when they have a breakdown in front of you? Eh?
OP posts:
MercyBooth · 28/02/2021 20:49

No @Wondermule You were doubting that someone is ill Your immediate default and go to is that they must be swinging the lead.

Wondermule · 28/02/2021 20:51

@MercyBooth

No *@Wondermule* You were doubting that someone is ill Your immediate default and go to is that they must be swinging the lead.
But surely you accept sometimes people will be exaggerating or using it as an excuse? Or do you think that never happens?
OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 28/02/2021 21:01

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

We should be telling our youngsters how well they've done through this, that they can achieve what they want by doing x y and z.

But apparently that's mollycoddling them, giving unnecessary praise and setting them up to fail in a world that will eat them alive.

But yet they seem to think telling the kids they've had a whole year of education missed (they haven't!) and it'll affect their whole future (it doesn't have to) is a better option.

They are basically setting all children currently education age to a mindset that if they don't achieve in life it's covid a fault.
That may be the case for a small minority who get stuck 8n that trap but we should be teaching them responsibility and effort to overcome this.

LolaSmiles · 28/02/2021 21:03

How can you tell the difference @LolaSmiles ?

That’s kind of the issue here. We are talking more about mental health than physical
I don't tell the difference because I'm not a qualified doctor and not arrogant enough to decide I know enough about my colleagues to judge their mental health.

If someone has lots of sickness absence then there's absence management procedures to follow.
If someone has been found to make fraudulent claims for time off the that is also covered by relevant procedures.

It must be horrible for people with mental health issues working in an environment where their colleagues are small minded and spiteful enough to think someone must look mentally unwell enough to justify being off.

How about turning it back to you? Assuming you're not medically qualified to assess someone's mental health, how exactly do you propose that people without appropriate professional qualifications judge someone to be worthy of sick leave for mental health reasons?

But surely you accept sometimes people will be exaggerating or using it as an excuse? Or do you think that never happens?
You're deflecting here. Nobody has said thay nobody ever makes excuses.

How exactly do you propose that colleagues judge someone's mental health better than the medical professionals who work with them?

Don't tell me you're one of these people who thinks someone can't be depressed because they were laughing on Tuesday.

SmokedDuck · 28/02/2021 21:08

I think it's interesting that so many seem to think the kind of thing discussed in the OP is unfair to people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

While there are some people from seriously disadvantaged situations who have some serious problems, in general I would say that the young people with fewer advantages are the ones who are NOT as likely to suffer from these problems.

I think it's probably because they are more likely to have to rely on themselves - there have been a number of studies that show that such children are more likely to have basic life skills and a certain amount of real independence. Certainly in my military job, those were not the kids who would have an entitled attitude about things like showing up late to work.

It was much more often the kids who came from middle class or even more privileged backgrounds, who did well without too much effort at school, and whose parents had the time and inclination to smooth their paths on a regular basis.

itsgettingwierd · 28/02/2021 21:09

Raw so true about detentions. My friends Dd was getting 2-3 a day. Fair enough there were issues and school were not helping but rather than tell her DD despite what was going on she couldn't behave that way she'd ring school daily saying "they aren't fair etc etc".

All that happened is her dd didn't bother to engage with anyone to help because she knew whatever she did mummy would always say it was fine.

It was the saddest thing to watch. Mum who never held child account. Child fall apart because of this. Child gets into trouble for falling apart and mum just further removes any expectations.

In the end I had to pull away because it was hard to watch.

PolkadotZebras · 28/02/2021 21:12

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

Many [young people] were so pampered nowadays that they had forgotten that there was such a thing as walking, and they made automatically for the buses… unless they did something, the future for walking was very poor indeed.” Scottish Rights of Way: More Young People Should Use Them, Falkirk Herald, 1951

Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt...”
Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History, 1771

We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”
The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925

They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle, 4th Century BC

It’s an irony, but so many of us are a cautious, nervous, conservative crew that some of the elders who five years ago feared that we might come trooping home full of foreign radical ideas are now afraid that the opposite might be too true, and that we could be lacking some of the old American gambling spirit and enterprise.”
The Care and Handling of a Heritage: One of the “scared-rabbit” generation reassures wild-eyed elders about future, Life, 1950

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle, 4th Century BC

The beardless youth… does not foresee what is useful, squandering his money.”
Horace, 1st Century BC

“What really distinguishes this generation from those before it is that it's the first generation in American history to live so well and complain so bitterly about it.”
The Boring Twenties, Washington Post, 1993

Cinemas and motor cars were blamed for a flagging interest among young people in present-day politics by ex-Provost JK Rutherford… [He] said he had been told by people in different political parties that it was almost impossible to get an audience for political meetings. There were, of course, many distractions such as the cinema…”
Young People and Politics, Kirkintilloch Herald, 1938

“…in youth clubs were young people who would not take part in boxing, wrestling or similar exercises which did not appeal to them. The ‘tough guy’ of the films made some appeal but when it came to something that led to physical strain or risk they would not take it.”
Young People Who Spend Too Much, Dundee Evening Telegraph, 1945

Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938

Probably there is no period in history in which young people have given such emphatic utterance to a tendency to reject that which is old and to wish for that which is new.”
Young People Drinking More, Portsmouth Evening News, 1936

You get the point. No matter what age you are ,an older generation belittled,mocked and gasped in horror at your lazy,entitled ,weak and snowflakey ways .

I'm sure you'd refute that. If they're wrong, what makes you so positively sure that you must be right?

Best post in the thread: thank you.
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