To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

@LolaSmiles

"I would rather my colleagues got properly better if they've been unwell, rather than drag themselves into work, working at limited capacity, and potentially making everyone else ill in the process."

Me too. Particularly in these strange times.

it's the piss takers that annoy me and the managers that have to tiptoe around them on the advice of HR while the rest of us get abused for not being supportive and have to work twice as hard to get things done as the work loads don't drop when the slackers aren't doing their share.

A whole raft of society expect something for nothing and jump on the bandwagon that if someone has something they don’t have access to, then somehow it’s not fair, even if that person put in a whole raft of effort and the complainant none.

But then as has been pointed out by a PP you have a generation where kids aren’t expected to have tests, or find inner strength for anything because that it make them ‘feel bad’ if they didn’t do as well in said test. No thought of the fact that this doesn’t prepare anyone for how life actually works.

I responded to a post once just saying that if kids were tested after lockdown that any issues could be identified and resolved. I was absolutely turned on by posters (in quite an abusive manner by some) who seemed to think that by not testing problems would just go away or that these tests would only stress the kids out when they were actually only used to identify gaps in how the kids were taught. It was actually quite pathetic.

We should be telling our youngsters how well they've done through this, that they can achieve what they want by doing x y and z.

But apparently that's mollycoddling them, giving unnecessary praise and setting them up to fail in a world that will eat them alive.

Agree OP.
I work for a council housing dpt, attempting to help families who are at threat of homelessness.

More than half the time it's their own fault (the adults in the family). Bad choices, spending money on the wrong things (yes i've spotted your Audi car keys on my desk and latest iPhone, nails done), not working enough hours or taking sensible opportunities, not taking initiative to earn more or live somewhere affordable, having multiple kids.

It's predictable and they come back to the council expecting endless assistance every time they get evicted or need more space. There's always excuses. If they took responsibility for themselves they'd be living happier less turbulent lives IMO and more assistance would be available for those who should actually need to be helped.

I don't think it is neccessarily an age thing for some of it, more a personality issue exacerbated by society/parental expectations.
My DC are 30s now, there were kids like it when they were at school. DS1 was utterley bemused by the number of kids turning up with mummy and daddy to uni days asking daft questions of lecturers to make sure their little darlings would be 'looked after'- he decided against uni after those visits, he felt uni was just a 6th form extention rather than the next step up for adults.
DD did a sport that required intensive training and drive. Her instructor has said he has had to reduce the intensity now as the kids can't cope with it now without tears and parents wanting their DC to be treated with kid gloves. Most of those kids won't reach potential, it will be the odd one who has real drive who will.
In my experience 'anxiety' is the new backache in the workplace. The number of colleagues who dont turn up for work, cite 'anxiety' when they fancy a few days off is unreal, self certify for the time. Companies are so keen to be seen to be aware of mental health that they then don't deal with them and a shit scared of falling foul of DDA. Those who have real issues tend to be the ones who struggle in, do their best and just occasionally need time away.
Unfortunately those who really do have MH issues struggle to access resources and support due to the number of system players who use up the precious little funding there is. There does need to be much more funding though to ensure those who really need the help actually get it and arent sent half way across the country when in a crisis! while Ellie who wants a few days off is sooo stressed she needs a day at the beach in lockdown with her bestie now the sun has come out

I’m finding this thread hilarious. It looks like every generation since before Jesus was a lad thinks that the generation after them is spoiled, rude, entitled, disrespectful and lazy.

@Maverickess has hit the nail on the head.

@Lolastarsandstripe

I’m finding this thread hilarious. It looks like every generation since before Jesus was a lad thinks that the generation after them is spoiled, rude, entitled, disrespectful and lazy.

Yup. And despite entirely disagreeing with the "oldies" going back even before Jesus, some posters have the arrogance to think they're the only ones to be right about the generation they moan about.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

I never mentioned ‘young people’ (I am one if nearly 30 counts?), or prescribed what I said to any particular generation.

[quote Wondermule]@AccidentallyOnPurpose

I never mentioned ‘young people’ (I am one if nearly 30 counts?), or prescribed what I said to any particular generation.[/quote]
Not all my comments are aimed at you hence saying "some posters". You just provided a handy platform for plenty of those posters and their "young 'uns" comments

@Lolastarsandstripe

I’m finding this thread hilarious. It looks like every generation since before Jesus was a lad thinks that the generation after them is spoiled, rude, entitled, disrespectful and lazy.

My parents said it about ' my generation' for sure because I was lucky enough to avoid the horror of WW2. You Don't know how lucky you are!

But there is a real sense of entitlement that other people will do things for you, I think.

I see it a lot in the SEN world. My child is five, diagnosed as autistic and has an EHCP that affords her 1-1 support in school. I got this the term before she started school (at preschool) knowing she would need more support than the usual and not wanting to place the burden of obtaining that on her new school. Everything was in place from day 1.

There is another parent, same class, who's child is just like mine and actually she probably has more needs than mine. She has been like this for two years (same preschool also). It has recently been said that it's not fair my child has a diagnosis and an EHCP when hers doesn't. The school is going their best to support this child with the resources they have and my child's 1-1 support is obviously ringfenced by the requirements of the EHCP. I have been approached (by the parent) and asked to 'share' (no, and the school won't anyway).

The difference is the moment preschool alerted me to their concerns - which I shared but was still alarmed and upset by - I went away and did my research. I was proactive. I got DD referred, assessed and she was diagnosed (over a year). The same concerns were raised to this parent around the same time by the same preschool only for the parent to dismiss them as the child being 'spirited' and having the view that preschool needed to manage her behaviour because she was ok at home. No amount of well intentioned information that children present differently in different environments sunk in. Not at home, not their problem.

Then we get to the EHCP. I applied myself. I learned over time, how to do this to be successful. I spent hours and hours collating data, employing an OT, and engaging with the preschool for assessments and the County Council for things like Ed Psych. I went on various courses to learn what I could do to help at home and at school. The EHCP took nearly a year of blood sweat and tears to get to final, and then to have the (mainstream) school named and for them to accept it.

They didn't bother. Because 'that's the schools job when she gets there'. Well, she's there now, the shit has majorly hit the fan and they're only just starting the process, expecting my child to forego some of her support to help their child whilst they get their acts together. They contacted me the other day to ask if they really needed to do anything or would the school just do it for them, and when I said they needed to engage and do their bit, they asked for me to send all of my information and a copy of my application for them to use as a template. Erm, no.

1. It doesn't work like that all children are very different you can't just copy 2) It's DDs private information, not for sharing and 3) Do your own bloody hard work!

They are CFs and the only person struggling as a result is their child. I feel sorry for her. The school are very proactive but it can't be easy to sort out when you have parents expecting to have their bums wiped for them every step of the way.

These are not deprived individuals who are lacking in education, means or capacity. These are professional adults, more than capable of doing a bit of bloody research. Use your initiative!

@BiddyPop to be fair, the prime minister can’t sweep/mop a floor. Respect level for him went into minus figures when I saw this:

I believe there is a historical precedence for societal extremes of all kinds, for example Puritanism was a reaction to perceived hedonism in society and lead to a regime where pretty much anything related to pleasure was demonised and eventually legislated against, then the power structure changed and a more happy medium was achieved.

Currently the attempt is to get away from the "stiff upper lip" mentality, which meant that people suffering from genuine abuse and injustice were encouraged to suck it up and not make waves for people not experiencing those things and without any understanding of them, or those who may have that shared experience but harbour subconscious resentment of anyone receiving support, however scant, and feel unfairly treated themselves - the "I'm alright Jack so you should be too" mentality if you will.

In our modern world every perceived slight and injustice must be addressed and there is money to be made in them thar hills - markets have to grow so new things have to be "invented" to keep people engaged. Alot of money and research is invested in identifying things that will push people's buttons and encourage them to reach out, which is often at a price, and offers tribalism in a more and more divided and fragmented society.

Also look at the fact that parenting has been turned into a far more involved pursuit than it used to be. This is mainly due to the absolutely necessary drive to educate people out of abusive parenting being hijacked, again by experts and also by market forces. There is no greater driver for obsessive parenting than "official" or "officially backed" forces opining that if you don't micro manage your child's life in every area, you are condemning them to a life of failure, for which you can and will be roundly blamed. Blame and shame are massive tools in the box of "nudge" policies, even if not specifically articulated.

So, people who may have been perfectly good organic parents and not abusive, can conflate what used to be considered trivial or passing issues with actual abusive behaviour. We may not all be slaves to these influences, but their sublety is vastly under-estimated I think.

Add in the knowledge that such a category of risk is now included in The Childrens Act, ie "risk of future emotional harm" which can be variously interpreted according to the popular zeitgeist, which may result in official intervention, and of course bringing up the next generation becomes rather fraughtPeople who have coped and muddled along reasonably well may feel that isn't good enough for their children, as does society, so they have to address their issues too. It can be a toxic cocktail leading to what is being addressed here as failure of personal responsibility to get things right - all the time.

There is a fine line to be trod here - the balance between pathologising normal human response for the greater good of society influenced by marketing opportunities, versus going back to "shut up and don't be a nuisance" when people are trying to carry on and improve.

Hopefully, in time, a happy medium will be achieved.

Re. Over-citing of anxiety in the workplace....

I wonder if this has in part come about as a response to people feeling uncomfortable challenging authority on unrealistic expectations/workplace culture.

The industry I've just given up for good is notoriously high-pressure, sink or swim, endless unpaid overtime etc. but it's the culture of the whole industry and always has been. When you're drowning in work but everyone else is too there's no way you feel comfortable saying "I feel nervous" or "I feel overwhelmed" to even your peers let alone your superiors. You'd look like the weak link. But if your fear/burnout/overworkedness is medicalised then you sort of swerve the part where you have to tell your directors actually it's their fault and there's a reason most of their staff are on antidepressants.

@rawlikesushi

I'm a teacher and if someone gets a telling off or a detention nowadays it's 50/50 whether a parent will ring up and complain about it.

We get parents arguing the toss over exam results, UCAS predictions, you name it. Weak performance is never weak performance, it's always extenuating circumstances.

If you think younger generations always look for someone to blame, and have no resilience, well it didn't happen in a vacuum. We did it to them.

100% agree though it isn't entirely new, I escaped the chalkface 15 years ago and it was the same then, it was always someone else's fault. I get frankly amazed at young mothers who can't cope without 'support' in looking after two children under three! It's not rocket science, why do they have to constantly 'interact with their child rather than letting them just play? When the child enters school in a class of 25+ they no doubt will find it hard.

YANBU, I worry for some of the young of today (anyone under 35ish really). Too many people think that someone else should sort out all their problems.

Funny how circular the arguments are.

I have never worked with someone who had 7 grandparents die!

If someone is taking the piss their managers should be taking action.

People do not take financial responsibility sometimes.
I know it's not always easy , but deciding between paying your mortgage or rent or bills before a new car or a holiday is a 'no brainer' really. Sadly people feel they ' deserve' things before thinking about saving up a bit for a rainy day or forgoing that trip away.
Maybe money management is seen as boring or not important anymore. Which is sad.

The replies on this thread show just how ridiculous most people find the sense of entitlement, constant whining and claims of mental health and anxiety disorders. Those that engage in this bevahviour have done huge disservice to the minority that actually suffers from these issues.

Hard work is not just hard work anymore, it’s a sacrifice. Raising children is not just parenting anymore, it’s a super human endeavor. Telling kids off is not discipline anymore, it’s child abuse. Having a difference of opinion is not just part of the discourse anymore, it’s triggering and nastiness and daily mail fodder.

@sst1234

The replies on this thread show just how ridiculous most people find the sense of entitlement, constant whining and claims of mental health and anxiety disorders. Those that engage in this bevahviour have done huge disservice to the minority that actually suffers from these issues.

Hard work is not just hard work anymore, it’s a sacrifice. Raising children is not just parenting anymore, it’s a super human endeavor. Telling kids off is not discipline anymore, it’s child abuse. Having a difference of opinion is not just part of the discourse anymore, it’s triggering and nastiness and daily mail fodder.

I feel bad for kids with parents like this. Kids need to see their parents as strong and capable, not nervous wrecks on the brink of falling apart every five minutes.

A lot of it, as lots of folk said, is because helicopter parents no longer give their children the freedom children need to make their own decisions and problem solve as they get older. Want a self-sufficient adult? Reframe parenting.

I'm on the cusp of Millenial/Gen Z and there's an obvious difference between me and people my age because my mum taught me to think for myself. Not many kids are taught that anymore.

I think a lot of people have forgotten that stress and anxiety are perfectly normal reactions to many, many situations.

Haven't RTFT yet but I agree OP. I think you've worded it perfectly. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm someone who really does need to change their life but is not doing anything about it.
There was a thread here recently about anxiety being used an excuse. It was quite an interesting read. I am also a sufferer myself (clinical depression and OCD) but so many people these days say they have anxiety when really they are just naturally anxious, a completely ordinary human emotion which is healthy. Avoiding things that make you anxious won't help you become less anxious about it.

Once again I reiterate that I am in no way demeaning those who do suffer from anxiety!