To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

Don’t know whether to be relieved or disappointed with no replies 😂

Do you think choices are made in a vacuum then?

No of course not.

I do think this is true and is getting even worse in the younger generations. DH manages several ‘gen Z’ well qualified, high earning for their age people and there’s always as reason why they can’t do literally any task asked of them that they don’t wish to do. And it’s always DH’s fault no matter how many hours and hours he’s put in to supporting them and talking them through things or providing a mentor or training.

Like you I don’t mean to belittle mental health issues, but they always cite anxiety, which usually boils down to bog standard nervousness.

I think there's some truth to this. Go look at the "will your children be getting tested?" threads. So many posters saying their children don't want tests and there's no way they'll be making them.

It's not really the best way to prepare for the world is it? Because employers take it so well when you "just don't want to". Not like you'd be out on your ear or anything...

I struggle with this because I have PTSD, stressful job, EA ex, rape case ongoing, have been through the mill and still keep putting one foot in front of the other, seek help when I need it, try to make good choices.

So when I see whining self pity and it being someone else’s fault I just think FFS get a grip and sort it out.

BUT I am critically aware I had a solid upbringing that gifted me resilience and problem solving. Not everyone has that, these offloading of responsibility are often a result of socialisation and learned behaviour.

So I try not to judge because there but for the grace of whatever force you believe in and all that!

So when problems like obesity occur, it's because people have en masse become lazy and feckless, with no structural root cause like supermarkets deliberately getting people to overbuy unhealthy food?

Kids these days are born into a caged existence, supervised massively more than previous generations, way more exam pressure, student debt, impossibility of finding a steady job and affordable home let alone anything like a balanced family life. No wonder they're dependent. We made them that way because it suited us.

It is very difficult.

I would agree to you that we all have the power to change our own personal circumstances.

I would argue against by saying often those choices are incredibly hard to make.

So yes. People can make their own lives and make their own opportunities (engaging with counselling, leaving abusers, earning more).

But due to the situation people are in they feel unable to do so.

I think there is a real problem with people refusing to take personal responsibility for things- it’s always the system or someone else to blame. A lot of people know all about their rights (and are absolutely insistent on those rights being upheld to the nth degree, come what may) but no nothing of, and care even less about, the responsibilities that go alongside those rights. There is, in my opinion, a real shallowness, lack of backbone/resilience and selfishness in this country. Not true if everyone, obviously, but becoming steadily more prevalent.

Not know.

I hate autocorrect and lack of edit button! No= know!

@justchecking1

I think there's some truth to this. Go look at the "will your children be getting tested?" threads. So many posters saying their children don't want tests and there's no way they'll be making them.

It's not really the best way to prepare for the world is it? Because employers take it so well when you "just don't want to". Not like you'd be out on your ear or anything...

That is a good example, about parents not getting their children to do something which is actually dutyfull. Which I think will happen to all those who always blame higher powers is that they will a massive reaction one day. Being fired from work. Arrested for refusing to comply. Having their housing removed from them. And so on! Whatever happen to do something because you must indeed, and show some will and resilience

That’s not to say there aren’t systemic problems or times when others are to blame..... but often trotted out without even thinking as an easy excuse.

I must admit the choc button thread had me rolling my eyes. Like anyone could claim in this day and age that they dont know feeding a baby chocolate is not on any weaning plan

Yeah, obviously there is a lot of room where people can have more or less capacity to act, or some barriers, etc, and there really are people who are debilitated in some way. Some problems can't be solved, unfortunately.

But I also would say that we haven't been giving young people a lot of tools that encourage them to take on difficult scenarios, work through things like being nervous or being sad, or take on a sense of personal responsibility or self-teach when they run into something they don't know how to do.

These are all things that people need to learn as they grow up. Things like passing stuff in on time, or you get a zero. Doing something even when you feel scared. Stepping up when you screw up. These aren't easy things and cultures need to encourage those kinds of things because the natural tendency is to shy away from them.

But in general, we try and be so understanding and make things so painless that many kids have very little experience of failure, how to work hard despite problems and overcome bad habits or fears etc. And a lot of people seem to have become afraid of strong emotions and feelings.

But the crux in many cases is this - even where there are real, serious, difficult to overcome issues, they aren't going to be solved unless the person makes the interior decision to persevere despite obstacles. There is no world where everything will be easy for most people all the time.

There are always reasons why things aren't as they should be, most of the time taking personal control would fix a lot of problems but some people don't have the energy or resistance to change for all sorts of reasons many emotional.
As someone who needs to make lifestyle changes myself it can be hard to hard to feel motivated.

Kids these days are born into a caged existence, supervised massively more than previous generations, way more exam pressure, student debt, impossibility of finding a steady job and affordable home let alone anything like a balanced family life. No wonder they're dependent. We made them that way because it suited us.

Yes, this is a real issue, but man, if you say so when it comes up, that maybe people need to give their kids some room to breath and be out of the parental - even adult - gaze, the push back is wicked!

But I also would say that we haven't been giving young people a lot of tools that encourage them to take on difficult scenarios, work through things like being nervous or being sad, or take on a sense of personal responsibility or self-teach when they run into something they don't know how to do.

No because again excuses are made - it becomes a vicious cycle. So then when they reach the next, bigger problem, it seems even more insurmountable & they cite their anxiety about it as a reason not to try. The cycle must be broken at some point (in a kind way, I don’t mean berating people).

I agree Op , so many people these days just don’t seem to be able to help themselves, they want someone else to sort it out for them , very little stoicism, resilience or accountability.

I do think children should be taught that life , in fact , isn’t always fair and if it doesn’t go their way to either accept it or find their own way around it.

I'm constantly amazed at the 'adults' who are still essentially children who just got taller.

DemolitionBarbie I think you're right that we 'made them that way', but it's something we need to work on or the next generation will be worse.

In many ways the people we're talking about are victims of their own upbringing (at home and outside). It's not like anyone says "do you know I think I'll grow up helpless and dependent" but circumstances lead them that way.

I'm a teacher and if someone gets a telling off or a detention nowadays it's 50/50 whether a parent will ring up and complain about it.

We get parents arguing the toss over exam results, UCAS predictions, you name it. Weak performance is never weak performance, it's always extenuating circumstances.

If you think younger generations always look for someone to blame, and have no resilience, well it didn't happen in a vacuum. We did it to them.

Completely agree. I work in HE and the number of students I have who claim they are incapable of engaging with anything remotely challenging due to “anxiety” or “mental health difficulties” is ridiculous. The vast majority of these students do not have clinically diagnosed mental health problems - but they are asked to do a presentation which is naturally a bit scary and they cannot cope with those feelings. I get very frustrated as the university then requires us to develop an alternative assignment for them so that they can still pass the course without ever having to do anything that makes them feel challenged or uncomfortable. If you try to argue against this then you are deemed to be “unsupportive” even though there are really valuable lessons to be learned from doing something that scares us. And so the cycle continues.

I can see why employers say that schools and universities are not producing leavers/graduates who are ready for the world of work. We create environments around young people that remove all risk of failure and everything is always someone else’s fault, or if it can’t be then it we blame our mental health.

I think it also creates a culture where people who are resilient are then expected to prop up those who aren’t. Which isn’t fair.

I'm constantly amazed at the 'adults' who are still essentially children who just got taller. 🤣 Great description, a few comes to mind.

Goady fucker thread.