To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

Overall the suicide rates since the 80's have been going down, even if there are spikes in certain years. I can cope with extra snowflakes, if it means less people dying from lack of support,help,acknowledgment etc.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean overdiagnosis of anxiety and other mental health issues not good if it it causes heavy dependency on tranquilizers etc but there is more emphasis on self Help for mild anxiety and also therapy for moderate and severe kinds. I can't see how those things are harmful.

Adversity can toughen up or destroy.

That's what the army and boarding schools used to do I think? Toughen up, there will be collateral damage, but it's worth it.

I am really pleased you have sorted everything out Wondermule

@MustardMitt

Less likely to be elastic and more likely to catastrophically break at some point. Like a person that builds a hard shell around themselves too keep out stuff they do not want to deal with.

I'm not talking from any particular knowledge other than people I have known. I'm not a psychologist. I do also think that you can have differing levels of resilience depending on circumstance.

am working on being more elastic and less brittle but have serious complex ptsd and other issues. Had a difficult upbringing and much ill health, so am not as resilient as should be, but am getting there!.

@Rainbowroads

Completely agree. I work in HE and the number of students I have who claim they are incapable of engaging with anything remotely challenging due to “anxiety” or “mental health difficulties” is ridiculous. The vast majority of these students do not have clinically diagnosed mental health problems - but they are asked to do a presentation which is naturally a bit scary and they cannot cope with those feelings. I get very frustrated as the university then requires us to develop an alternative assignment for them so that they can still pass the course without ever having to do anything that makes them feel challenged or uncomfortable. If you try to argue against this then you are deemed to be “unsupportive” even though there are really valuable lessons to be learned from doing something that scares us. And so the cycle continues.

I can see why employers say that schools and universities are not producing leavers/graduates who are ready for the world of work. We create environments around young people that remove all risk of failure and everything is always someone else’s fault, or if it can’t be then it we blame our mental health.

Totally agree with you.

I’m not saying because I can do it everyone can

That's exactly what you are saying and not just that, you are blaming and actively shaming anyone that didn't "make" it like you did.

Too bad in your race to the top you forgot to learn some empathy.

I can tell you the story of a kid that got straight A's living in a hovel with no running water , no electricity etc that did his homework by candlelight. Will your kids get straight A's ? Did you? Why not?

@NiceGerbil

Adversity can toughen up or destroy.

That's what the army and boarding schools used to do I think? Toughen up, there will be collateral damage, but it's worth it.

I am really pleased you have sorted everything out Wondermule

Thanks Gerbil. Of course I still have my wobbles, I try not to shut my past out to an unhealthy extent, but they tend to be more of the crying in the bath variety. Then I get out, and life goes on.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

I’m not saying because I can do it everyone can

That's exactly what you are saying and not just that, you are blaming and actively shaming anyone that didn't "make" it like you did.

Too bad in your race to the top you forgot to learn some empathy.

I can tell you the story of a kid that got straight A's living in a hovel with no running water , no electricity etc that did his homework by candlelight. Will your kids get straight A's ? Did you? Why not?

Really, my ‘race to the top’? Like pulling myself out of that hole was akin to a ruthless person on a grad scheme? 😂

Yes I think raising children with resilience is vital and ditto personal responsibility

However I have the tools because I was raised by practical sensible parents who didn’t really indulge helplessness

A can do attitude can’t always be learned if your be been raised the entitled victims you hear about on MN

We need a culture shift. I despise the whole fragile overly neurotic narrative that is prevalent.

@MustardMitt

Less likely to be elastic and more likely to catastrophically break at some point. Like a person that builds a hard shell around themselves too keep out stuff they do not want to deal with.

I'm not talking from any particular knowledge other than people I have known. I'm not a psychologist. I do also think that you can have differing levels of resilience depending on circumstance.

All people can break under the correct set of circumstances.

It's not the lack of flexibility. It's either something completely new and deeply traumatic that could break anyone, or one too many stressors which is more likely to break someone that has already suffered trauma and adversity. They're already handling more than most. That's not lack of elasticity. Even elastic has a breaking point.

Agree, some people in bad situations just don't want to make ANY positive, proactive changes, yet expect a resolution to their issues. I've seen many examples of even when they have been given all the help possible, and start to make progress ....a month down the line they are back to square one due to their own bad decisions... yet always blame someone else and won't take responsibility.... more personal responsibility is definitely needed, alongside wider investment into areas of deprivation etc etc

Agree with @NiceGerbil.
The human brain has limited capacity for cognitive processing.
The constant 24/7 news cycle, often using accusatory language making you feel solely responsible for every single fucking thing that goes wrong in the world including global warming, war in the Middle East or the mental health of other people.
The media sowing general anxiety and division with the constant race/class/gender baiting.
I have become much calmer and happier by tuning the world out and focusing on my day to day.
I still follow some news and donate to specific charities. I consider my bit done. Anything and anyone else can fuck right off.

@WeIcomeToGilead

Yes I think raising children with resilience is vital and ditto personal responsibility

However I have the tools because I was raised by practical sensible parents who didn’t really indulge helplessness

A can do attitude can’t always be learned if your be been raised the entitled victims you hear about on MN

We need a culture shift. I despise the whole fragile overly neurotic narrative that is prevalent.

My mum always told me "there's no such thing as I can't, only I don't want to". And that mental health support ,meds, psychologists etc were for bored housewives or the institutionalised "proper crazies". She definitely had a can do attitude.

I still broke and failed and fucked up many times to her horror and despair.

Being abandoned at birth, several sexual assaults, emotional and physical abuse by the aforementioned mother will do that to a kid.

@WhoStoleMyCheese

Agree with *@NiceGerbil*. The human brain has limited capacity for cognitive processing. The constant 24/7 news cycle, often using accusatory language making you feel solely responsible for every single fucking thing that goes wrong in the world including global warming, war in the Middle East or the mental health of other people. The media sowing general anxiety and division with the constant race/class/gender baiting. I have become much calmer and happier by tuning the world out and focusing on my day to day. I still follow some news and donate to specific charities. I consider my bit done. Anything and anyone else can fuck right off.

But you’re a perfect example of what I mean - you identified these things were making you anxious, so you switched them off. You took responsibility for your own happiness rather than continuing to watch the news and moaning how depressing it is.

I’m not talking about people developing problems, I’m talking about people refusing to take steps to change them. I think I’ve been misunderstood by a lot of people on this thread.

@DemolitionBarbie

Obesity has a multitude of contributing factors, that's undeniable but the overriding reason we are fatter is that food is cheaper relative to our salaries and unhealthy food tends to be quicker to prepare, we are naturally quite lazy as a species. (Healthy food doesn't have to be more expensive btw but it tends to take a lot more prep). Oh and we want instant gratification and struggle with impulse control with the abundance of food we have today.

This is why I'm overweight - because I love food, the taste, the mouth feel, the social aspect too. I can cook very well but sometimes I can't be bothered because I'm tired, I'm tired because I'm stressed, a bit down etc - but a nice tub of ice cream or packet of minstrels can be an excellent pick me up.

I relate. I had a parent like your mum. @AccidentallyOnPurpose

I really hate the implication that it's a bad thing that mental health is being talked about. Am glad it's becoming mainstream. Therapy and self help are helpful. Better overdiagnosis than under

@PhylisNightsIsAwesome You sound like you're nearly there :)

[quote MustardMitt]@PhylisNightsIsAwesome You sound like you're nearly there :)[/quote]
Am getting there, definitely

I get where you are coming from and agree to a certain extent. I'm obese so disagree on that point, I am very well aware that there is no-one to blame but myself and don't know anyone in the sane situation that thinks differently!

The thing I find a lot though is young people unable to tolerate a minute of not being entertained, hugely unrealistic expectations (ie new grads in their first job expecting promotions to management within 12 months) and the constant screams of 'I have anxiety' when actually they are just anxious about a perfectly normal worrying thing (eg taking a driving test, exam, interview) which wind me up as it completely dismisses people with actually anxiety that struggle through the day. Seriously, kids need to be taught that some things are worrying. It's normal to be worried, you just need to work through it

@PhylisNightsIsAwesome

I relate. I had a parent like your mum. *@AccidentallyOnPurpose*

I really hate the implication that it's a bad thing that mental health is being talked about. Am glad it's becoming mainstream. Therapy and self help are helpful. Better overdiagnosis than under

But it’s being discussed so much, I think people are confusing normal negative feelings (such as nervousness at taking an exam) with having an actual condition.

@PhylisNightsIsAwesome

I relate. I had a parent like your mum. *@AccidentallyOnPurpose*

I really hate the implication that it's a bad thing that mental health is being talked about. Am glad it's becoming mainstream. Therapy and self help are helpful. Better overdiagnosis than under

That's my feeling on it too, not just in an attempt to help the people struggling now but to break the cycle for future generations too.

People seem to forget and ignore the fact that depending on age and the type of trauma (or effects while in the womb like drugs and alcohol which weren't widely recognised 20/30 /40 years ago) some people's thought processes,decision making skills, brain activity and reactions can be affected for life. You can expect personal responsibility all you want, it doesn't mean it will take the form of what would make some posters happy.

That's without the fact that for many traumatised people personal responsibility takes the form of i'm unlovable,I don't matter, I don't deserve better, i deserve abuse , it's all me, it's all my fault ,I should die etc.

In both situations even with brilliant help and support , significant changes are possible but rather unlikely.

@wondermule that could be a risk but a doctor will rule that one out. Also even if they don't have a.condition teaching kids some.basic mindfulness or.relaxation of self.care.can't do any harm

I sit reading MN night after night rolling my eyes. So many absolutely ridiculous posts about someone “precious child” being blamed for this, not being picked for the team,getting told off at school, not having grapes cut correctly. Or “DC15 wants to break lockdown “ blah blah blah. People are creating monsters. Children/ young adults seem to not be able to fend for themselves. Every other thread on here it’s “someone else’s fault” when actually it’s not. If you don’t like something change it. If your husbands being a knob tell him. Teach your children to be independent, stop washing you 15years clothes, make them contribute to the home etc etc. Too many bloody organic parents trying to “protect” their children in such ways they have no life skills or independence!
I feel like it’s only getting worse!

[quote PhylisNightsIsAwesome]@wondermule that could be a risk but a doctor will rule that one out. Also even if they don't have a.condition teaching kids some.basic mindfulness or.relaxation of self.care.can't do any harm[/quote]
You’re assuming everyone sees a doctor - I really think a lot of people just self diagnose, then state it as fact.

I agree OP, things can be over talked about to the extent it becomes almost catching.
And if you can come up with an excuse you can basically fuck up til kingdom come as long as you can find a convincing argument for why it wasn’t your fault.
I have fucked up loads, it has affected lots of people, not just me. I fucked up. I could say it was my anxiety, my co-dependency, my PTSD but quintessentially I knew I had these in my life, I know the steps to take to seek help, and I chose to do it anyway. Usually I make the right choice, but when I fuck up I fuck up bad. Entirely my responsibility.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

This. So true. It isn't that black and white for many of us.