AIBU to think that lesbians deserve a dating app that caters exclusively to lesbians?

[Glinner]

Recently I opened an account with the app Her to bring attention to the many straight men invading lesbian dating apps by claiming a 'lesbian', 'queer' or 'trans' identity.

Given that lesbians are adult human females exclusively attracted to other adult human females, am I being unreasonable to believe that lesbians deserve spaces of their own, both online and in the real world?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

led to a bunch of straight women debating lesbian experiences over actual lesbians and cheering at the man who created this thread.

There are lesbians, including on this thread, who agree with him. I'm straight. Not everyone disagreeing with you is. Not everyone agreeing isn't.

Yes and I have stated many times that lesbian who disagree are welcome and should be at the core of this conversation. So? What point are you trying to make?

I am not under the illusion that no lesbians agree with the OP, I am just of the Opinion that it’s for the lesbians who feel like the OP to start those type of threads and conversation and that it’s not for straight men to do so nor for straight women to interject or take over and threads like these should be created by lesbians, for lesbians and led exclusively by lesbians (irrelevant of their stance on the issue) not by outsiders even if they consider themselves allies.

Did they claim to? I didn't claim to, either. But if one subgroup of a group are trying to change the group's definition to be inclusive of people who don't meet the criteria, then obviously the "fuck no" subgroup are entitled a say and possibly the casting vote.

My last to Mockolate

YANBU of course they do . It's appalling what is going in Lesbian dating apps.

And I don't think I have much more to say, except Linning, are you advocating that the definition of "lesbian" should change to include people with penises? So potentially both partners are intact biological males? And still lesbians?

But if one subgroup of a group are trying to change the group's definition to be inclusive of people who don't meet the criteria, then obviously the "fuck no" subgroup are entitled a say and possibly the casting vote.

They're including trans women.
If you don't want to date them, you don't have to.
Just date/swipe/whatever towards those you do.

That last post of mine to Linning

Also it’s kind of ironic that the topic of this thread is:

• AIBU to think lesbians should have their own space exclusively for them.

Mumsnet: YANBU!! Lesbians should be able to be amongst lesbians exclusively.

Me: AIBU to think threads about lesbians should be written by lesbians and not men, and that lesbians should be the ones answering them and leading the conversation?

Mumsnet: YABVU, men should be able to create threads on behalf of lesbians and as a straight women who has lesbians friends, my opinion is as valid as yours and I very much appreciate men starting topics about lesbians and keeping me inform of the reality of life as a lesbian. I really don’t see why straight people shouldn’t be at the core of lesbian discussions and leading discussions that are about lesbians, we totally have a right to be there and lead the way, especially considering we are allies.

It’s strange how people can’t see the correlation between what they are denouncing and their own behavior.

Just a hunch. I wonder if they swipe right on each other? Probably not since they are lesbian and have a genital preference

Why do people spout this shit? Plenty of trans women have relationships with other trans women. To claim they don't just makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about

It’s strange how people can’t see the correlation between what they are denouncing and their own behavior

very true

my opinion is as valid as yours

I didn't say it was on this issue. But the the opinion of the many lesbian women who don't accept trans ideology is as valid as yours.

My opinion that biological male people, in any circumstances, can never become women and should never be considered as women, is as valid as yours. Which is why I'm asking you if you're advocating for the definition of lesbian to be changed from "female same sex attraction" to be inclusive of all males who identify as women? If so, fair enough.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And I don't think I have much more to say, except Linning, are you advocating that the definition of "lesbian" should change to include people with penises? So potentially both partners are intact biological males? And still lesbians?

If I say yes will you support me as a lesbian or would you fight me on it? Since you are an ally and care about what lesbians want and supposedly want to enhance their voices?

The fact that you keep giving me what if scenarios make me think that you don’t actually care to enhance lesbian voices (irrelevant of their stance) but actually care to challenge them on things, you, as a straight woman disagree with.

I have my own personal opinion when it comes to the lesbian label and no I don’t necessarily think that two people with a penis can be lesbians BUT some transwomen have no penis and so not including penises in the definition doesn’t even exclude transwomen from the definition.

It doesn’t matter what I think of the lesbian definition because I am ONE lesbian. I don’t feel like my opinion trumps the one of other lesbians, I have a definition and boundaries that suits me and stick to and I let other people do the same. I am not outraged by other people having different opinions and boundaries and I don’t even see it as something that personally impacts me. Because again, I have my own boundaries and stick to them and don’t get influenced by what others do or what’s popular, or the most well-seen.

@Bluntasduck

Just a hunch. I wonder if they swipe right on each other? Probably not since they are lesbian and have a genital preference

Why do people spout this shit? Plenty of trans women have relationships with other trans women. To claim they don't just makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about

Exactly, the bias on this thread is awful.

Of course trans couples exists. I know many of pretty much any combination (some married and with kids).

Why would trans people not be attracted to fellow trans people? Most trans people statistically date other trans people or non-binary individuals BECAUSE people who aren’t trans aren’t keen to date them and also because they obviously have lots in common. What a strange assumption.

I have my own personal opinion when it comes to the lesbian label and no I don’t necessarily think that two people with a penis can be lesbians

Fair enough. On that we agree. I'm sure that you realise that what you've said is transphobia to many activists, including many straight and gay men as well as lesbian, bisexual and straight women. Plenty of people are involved in this debate on both sides. It's about the definition of "woman", and to a lesser extent "man".

On that we agree. I'm sure that you realise that what you've said is transphobia to many activists

Some activists say it so it must be true.

While it's considered so by those activists, so it's true to them? As I said

@Ereshkigalangcleg

my opinion is as valid as yours

I didn't say it was on this issue. But the the opinion of the many lesbian women who don't accept trans ideology is as valid as yours.

My opinion that biological male people, in any circumstances, can never become women and should never be considered as women, is as valid as yours. Which is why I'm asking you if you're advocating for the definition of lesbian to be changed from "female same sex attraction" to be inclusive of all males who identify as women? If so, fair enough.

Yes their opinion is as valid as mine and it’s with THEM that I would want to discuss that and would love to answer to. Because we are both at the core of that issue. If your lesbian friends want to discuss with me and share their views about lesbian issues I would LOVE to have that conversation.

But again you just stated your personal opinion,
and then followed with “and this is why I am you asking if” why does what you think or believe as a straight woman on lesbian matters and lesbian definitions lead to me having to answer you?

Why do you also seem to think you are the representative for your lesbian friends?

Why has this thread about lesbians and how lesbians feels in their own spaces turn into a thread where lesbians have to answer to straight people or convince straight people of anything? And don’t say I could ignore you because when I don’t answer right away you follow up with a “can you answer me please?”

My point stand. Thread like this and “Allies” like this are more damaging to me and taking over more of my safe space as a lesbian than transwomen do. If you can’t see why, and aren’t willing to acknowledge how you are also making lesbians spaces and issues about you and are actively disminishing lesbian spaces by taking over as a straight individual (the same way you claim transwomen do) then you aren’t a good, or at least, very self-aware ally.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I have my own personal opinion when it comes to the lesbian label and no I don’t necessarily think that two people with a penis can be lesbians

Fair enough. On that we agree. I'm sure that you realise that what you've said is transphobia to many activists, including many straight and gay men as well as lesbian, bisexual and straight women. Plenty of people are involved in this debate on both sides. It's about the definition of "woman", and to a lesser extent "man".

Sigh. Yes and I also realize that I disagree on a some topics with 90% of the Mumsnetters. It doesn’t make me change my stance.

I have always been vocal about my views, I live and work within a massive queer/lesbian and trans-community and have had plenty of healthy debates over the topic, being fully honest about my stance and have yet to be called a TERF, lose a friend over it or anything, because I am not transphobic.

If people think I am being transphobic and I am sure some do. It’s fine, their feelings are valid. It doesn’t mean their feelings are accurately representative but they are Valid. Their feelings doesn’t change my mind and I don’t feel the need to convince strangers from anything, one way or another. I am unaffected by what people think of me tbh.

I have only love for people who think differently of me in the community and totally understand their stance too. I don’t think others are wrong for thinking differently to me and so I will never go at war with people who think my definitions and boundaries are transphobic but I will simply stand my ground and most definitely expect them to do the same which is fine in my book.

You are not being unreasonable.

Lesbian = Homosexual Adult Human Female.

It doesn’t matter what I think of the lesbian definition because I am ONE lesbian. I don’t feel like my opinion trumps the one of other lesbians,

I am also straight, I can see you are annoyed about straight women not supporting lesbian voices. Just to check, am I meant to listen to what female lesbians say or male ones?

I somehow don't think you mean I should listen to what Eddie Izzard thinks about being a lesbian? I know he is one because he said so.

although the thread has discussed wether glinner did the right thing or people are annoyed that he shouldn't speak for lesbian voices.

My issue with this is about women and children's boundaries and the miss use of language for the benefit of a particular group of people.

If we now decide that men who identify as women can also now identify as lesbians and then this must be so. We used to call these biological men heterosexual men.

What's next for language? If we now must all except that this is the case, and language has now new meaning and lines and boundaries have been blurred.

In a few years time can some men and women identify as children? Would this now be acceptable? Language is important.
A lesbian is an adult human female who is sexual attracted to another adult human female.

Gosh, I'm surprised that it doesn't already exist. Yadnbu.