AIBU to think that lesbians deserve a dating app that caters exclusively to lesbians?

[Glinner]

Recently I opened an account with the app Her to bring attention to the many straight men invading lesbian dating apps by claiming a 'lesbian', 'queer' or 'trans' identity.

Given that lesbians are adult human females exclusively attracted to other adult human females, am I being unreasonable to believe that lesbians deserve spaces of their own, both online and in the real world?

YANBU. Don't think he is speaking over any body. He joined an app and highlighted something a bit ridiculous he thinks is wrong. Though if HER has always been a queer dating app and hasn't converted from a same sex dating app I guess that's not quite as bad.

Glinner did you get any swipe rights?

The other lesbians with penis's, I wonder if they get any swipe rights?

I can't imagine it's a very successful dating strategy but perhaps their motivation is not to find the one. Just a hunch. I wonder if they swipe right on each other? Probably not since they are lesbian and have a genital preference. Possibly just being on the site is reward enough. The female gaze .

And you, Linning, have said that you won't consider dating an MTF trans person, so you are in agreement with the lesbian women I know up to a point.

Not Linning, obvs, but yes, but there comes a point you can decide to just not match up.
They made a great point you can either say yay or nay.
No offence taken, just bit of chat and then move on.
Whereas others who don't mind and are happy, can.

Can stay that should say

I think being an ally is well but this thread has 175 messages how many written by lesbians and how many written by a man or straight woman. As an ally to your friend you find her platforms where SHE can come and share her story, you (I am not talking about you specifically but allies in general) don’t use your friend‘s story to make general statement about lesbians and what lesbians experience. You stand up against men like glinner who come and take over for lesbians and use them for his own agenda and you promote conversation between lesbians.

The role of an Ally is not to speak for and over the people they support it’s in making room and giving them the space to speak and talk about their own issues. When a discussion is created for and about lesbians by non lesbians and a great majority of people opinionating aren’t lesbians or even female. You are drowning out the voices of the people who are actually concerned. Your opinion as a straight woman on lesbian issues is irrelevant (as valid as it might be) the same way the opinion of a man on women‘s fertility and issues should be irrelevant. It’s not about them. It’s not for them to speak or interject or suggest.

I have no problem with allies, I am glad they are there but I hate when "Allies“ comes barging in taking stories of a friend of a friend or quote Twitter post and make blanket statements about lesbians like they hold the truth or know how lesbian feels because their one lesbian friend shared something with them or they saw a heated Twitter feed.

Unless you are a lesbian directly affected by the issue at hand, it is not your Place (again general you) as an Ally to take over a feed and go on a quest for what you think is right because you have some knowledge of the issue at hand, have a friend who is a lesbian or have a strong opinion.

Invite your lesbian friend to partake in the conversation, absolutely, but straight people need to stop thinking their opinion/fears/anxiety of what’s happening in the lesbian/gay community matters when it really doesn’t. This issue isn’t about them, and making it about their opinion/thoughts on the issue and continuously telling us gay/lesbian folks how they feel as if we should be more concerned than we are because they know better than us what’s happening despite having no experience of being us and debating with us (the people actually at the corer of the problem, living through it) when we disagree with their views, is not okay and is not allyship. It’s using lesbians for their agenda and that’s exactly what this whole thread is about, and why as a lesbian I find this thread more damaging to me than transwomen being on dating apps that have made it clear they are welcome.

I agree, and gay males should have this too.

Don't think he is speaking over any body

He's talking over actual lesbians though, who have said they don't mind.

He joined an app and highlighted something a bit ridiculous he thinks is wrong
Yes, by saying he's a lesbian just to prove a point and seemingly troll trans people.

YANBU.

I agree, and gay males should have this too.

Absolutely.

As an ally to your friend you find her platforms where SHE can come and share her story, you (I am not talking about you specifically but allies in general) don’t use your friend‘s story

It's more than one friend, so I'm not unreasonable in seeing the problem.

@linning you make great posts, found myself agreeing with you on the white privilege comments you made on another thread earlier
I'm white, and straight, people who are these but try to speak for others is a bit for want of a better expression.

This issue isn’t about them, and making it about their opinion/thoughts on the issue and continuously telling us gay/lesbian folks how they feel as if we should be more concerned than we are because they know better than us what’s happening despite having no experience of being us

It's not just about lesbians. It is about who is and who isn't a woman. Which you understand. And which is important to me and my female friends.

It's not just about lesbians. It is about who is and who isn't a woman. Which you understand. And which is important to me and my female friends.

If you identify as female and identify as lesbian you are lesbian end of story.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And you, Linning, have said that you won't consider dating an MTF trans person, so you are in agreement with the lesbian women I know up to a point. They analyse it as oppressive, not preference, so maybe go further than you in wanting male people out of lesbian spaces completely.

Not wanting to date people with penises is the great majority of lesbians. It’s not unique or a small number of oppressed women. It’s the majority of lesbians.

I don’t see what’s oppressive in having the option to swipe left on transwomen and not have to interact with them at all.

I find it more irritating that some lesbians are using the word oppression to define the experience of WILLINGLY signing up to a dating app that CLEARLY states is NOT for lesbians only and is inclusive of Trans-women and non-binary individuals and realizing there is actually trans-women and non-binary individuals in there, they are not even forced to interact with.

Like I said lesbian spaces as such don’t exist. All the “lesbian” spaces make it clear that they are inclusive of trans-individuals. Your friends are not forced to go there, and have the ability to create their own spaces and apps, that would allow them not to feel oppress and would keep all males at bay.

You can’t be oppressed by willingly going to things that clearly advertise who they welcome.

And unless your friends are being stopped from creating their own apps or own spaces then I think using the word oppression to describe their online dating experience is a stretch.

Linning, are you similarly uncomfortable with male trans allies chanting "trans women are women", and telling women what boundaries we should expect to be respected? If you are, fine. Would you tell them, if so?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

This issue isn’t about them, and making it about their opinion/thoughts on the issue and continuously telling us gay/lesbian folks how they feel as if we should be more concerned than we are because they know better than us what’s happening despite having no experience of being us

It's not just about lesbians. It is about who is and who isn't a woman. Which you understand. And which is important to me and my female friends.

No this thread isn’t about trans people and women. It’s about lesbians.

Unless you are a lesbian, your opinion is very much irrelevant to this thread.

If you are a lesbian then sure, speak up and share your views, but it’s not a general thread about women and trans folks. It’s a thread about Lesbians.

Many threads on AIBU about women and trans folks where your opinion as a woman is important and perfectly suited for the thread. If you are a straight woman though, this one isn’t one of them.

[quote Mockolate]@linning you make great posts, found myself agreeing with you on the white privilege comments you made on another thread earlier
I'm white, and straight, people who are these but try to speak for others is a bit for want of a better expression.[/quote]
Thank you for your kind words, I agree with you, I am in and out of activity on Mumsnet because when I am on you always have 100 threads of faux-concerned mumsnetters using minority groups they aren’t a part of as a prop for their personal agendas and convictions. It’s tiring.

Could you answer my question, please? This thread wasn't actually started by a lesbian so it involves other people's perspectives. Unless you consider the thread starter's temporary lesbian identity for the purposes of posting on "Her" valid, which I'm pretty sure you don't?

YANBU at all OP.

This thread wasn't actually started by a lesbian

Exactly lol
But still went onto a lesbian site pretending to be one in some kind of gotcha
Which kind of proves linnings point

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Linning, are you similarly uncomfortable with male trans allies chanting "trans women are women", and telling women what boundaries we should expect to be respected? If you are, fine. Would you tell them, if so?

I am okay with trans women identifying as women.

I don’t agree with the notion that they have on any shape or form the same experience as female-born women and I would stand against trans women pretending they do. But my experience is that transwomen aren’t actually deluded into thinking that their experience as a trans-woman matches the one of women who were actually born women.

I don’t think trans individuals should have any rights to demand things from women but I do think they should have the right to advocate for their own rights and demand what they feel they need (not saying it should be given to them or accepted, just that they should have a right to say “ideally this is what we would want and need to feel and be comfortable and feel heard and fairly treated).

I have no problem standing up to anyone gay, straight, trans, white, black , I don’t care. If I have something to say or disagree with you. I will say so.

I don’t agree with everything trans people ask for. I still understand why, if they feel the way they do, their request would sound reasonable to them.

But what I disagree is with people saying blanket statements such as “lesbians feel uncomfortable by transwomen being in their space.” Some might. Many don’t.

I don’t want what a fellow lesbian says with opposite views to be turned into a blanket statement about me and my community the same way I don’t want what I think and say to be used as a blanket statement that would reflect a fellow lesbian with opposite views or the lesbian community. We are individuals. One can’t make blankets statements about lesbians that’s why it’s important we are left to speak rather than having a bunch of “Allies” interjecting and taking over.

I don’t agree with the notion that they have on any shape or form the same experience as female-born women and I would stand against trans women pretending they do. But my experience is that transwomen aren’t actually deluded into thinking that their experience as a trans-woman matches the one of women who were actually born women.

Not my experience. But I appreciate your answer, thank you.

@Mockolate

This thread wasn't actually started by a lesbian

Exactly lol
But still went onto a lesbian site pretending to be one in some kind of gotcha
Which kind of proves linnings point

Exactly!

I answered your question @Ereshkigalangcleg.

This thread wasn’t started by a lesbian, it wasn’t even started by a woman. It was started by a man and led to a bunch of straight women debating lesbian experiences over actual lesbians and cheering at the man who created this thread.

Is that what being an ally looks like?

The fact that you don’t see a problem with the fact that a thread about lesbians for lesbians wasn’t created by a lesbian (or even a woman!) and wasn’t primarily answered to by lesbians and attempt to normalize it as if it’s totally okay for straight people and men to talk on behalf of lesbians about their experiences makes me wonder if you actually grasp what being an Ally is and why this thread isn’t allyship.

led to a bunch of straight women debating lesbian experiences over actual lesbians and cheering at the man who created this thread.

There are lesbians, including on this thread, who agree with him. I'm straight. Not everyone disagreeing with you is. Not everyone agreeing isn't.

There are lesbians, including on this thread, who agree with him
So do they speak for all lesbians then?