Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

If I went abroad and committed a crime, I would be arrested and tried under the laws of the country in which I committed the offence. I would not expect to be brought back to the UK to stand trial.

Why should this be any different? She could have decided at the UK airport not to fly and asked for help. She could have done so at the airports through which she transited; she didn't. She therefore made a choice not to stop before she got too far to turn back. There was certainly an element of self determination and choice here.

Normally she is a citizen by default because her parents were born in Bangladesh. From what I can remember, she's never stepped foot there let alone born there. So basically we will dump her to a country where her parents were born in which that country has strongly denied her. So basically she won't have any rights in the country she was born in, lived in and was actually a citizen in because she made a terrible terrible choice at 15 where our authorities have failed to protect her.

She needs to face trials in our country I think. She also needs mental support. I would rather win her back as a citizen and assimilate her back into our values over time than just dump her and leave her to always be threat. We have never tried to win her back like we have for all other criminals in this country who have willingly committed crimes in adulthood.

"Well where should she go then, who should pick up our problem?"

She stopped being our responsibility when she threw her passport into the desert and swore allegiance to a terrorist organisation committed to destroying the West.

She could still be our problem as a rallying point for underground terrorist cells in UK if she returned.

This might sound awful but with everything going on in the world I find it really hard to care about Shamima Begum to be honest. She’s both a victim and a despicable human being. If she comes here I hope she has to face up to her crimes and is imprisoned and given the appropriate counselling and support. If she stays there great- not our problem. I honestly don’t care really.

She has no emotion in interviews. I really don't think she understands the severity of her actions... BUT I feel sorry for her. She lost her mother just before she left and her father remarried and she didn't get on with the new wife and went to live with her grandmother. She was probably desperately unhappy and extremely vulnerable and clearly was seduced by the idea of starting her own family in syria and escaping her life in London.

@Snoozysnoozy

I don't think anyone that goes to fight for/support ISIS deserves to come back to the UK. She can fuck off and face justice in the country she was captured in.

She was groomed. Have you any experience of that? I know people who were groomed as children. One was told they would have to marry their male relative, who had raped them. 10 years old, and believed they had to marry their rapist. A white, christian family.

Can you even imagine the level of mindfucking it takes to have a child believe *that? I doubt it. NO access to the internet, and daren't speak out or ask anyone about it, because they've been told Bad Things WIll Happen if they do. (It's very common for abusers/grommers to tell the person they're grooming/abusing that Bad Things WIll Happen if the victim speaks out/reports the abuse...)

This case is the UK Home Office setting a precedence. If they can do this to this person, who was a groomed child, they can do it to you, or anyone else they deem a problem.

Those of you who think she should come back and “be cared for” tell that to all those families with loved ones killed by terrorists.

She’s British. She should be allowed to come back and face justice. She should go to prison for a long time.

We cannot wash our hands of her - it’s absurd. She has made a terrible mess of her life, but we have made a terrible mess of our country if we are the sort of place where children can be groomed and persuaded hat Syria is the better option. Both Begum and the U.K. need to deal with the mistakes they have made.

She might even be able to help prevent it from happening to another group of teenagers.

@FuckyouCovid21

If she does get to come back, think of how much money it'll cost to keep her safe

Millions, as well as paying for her Legal Aid lawyers, she would be a burden forever. No doubt were she to be returned and jailed the hand-wringers wouldn't rest until she was on the streets spouting her bile. No-one knows if the babies ever existed.

@EachBleachBlairTrump

I feel really torn about this, she was 15 groomed, someone should've stepped in before she went, she was known to authorities. However I do absolutely believe she poses a very high risk of serious harm to the public. I work in criminal justice and whilst human rights are protected they cannot trump public protection.

Exactly this

She committed her crime of being a member of IS in Syria so Syria have a right to decide her fate.

What's all this poor child rubbish? She's a fucking terrorist, leave her there to rot.

You're all very tolerant!

I'm Irish and not living in the UK, but from what I understand, she's not sorry. I feel for her in some ways, she's been through a lot, she was groomed/radicalised. But she's canny enough, she wants to return to Britain after all she's been through, so Britain can't be that bad I guess.... and yet she's not sorry!? I think a person can forfeit their rights to live in a country even if it's their own country.

@thegcatsmother

If I went abroad and committed a crime, I would be arrested and tried under the laws of the country in which I committed the offence. I would not expect to be brought back to the UK to stand trial.

Why should this be any different? She could have decided at the UK airport not to fly and asked for help. She could have done so at the airports through which she transited; she didn't. She therefore made a choice not to stop before she got too far to turn back. There was certainly an element of self determination and choice here.

She was 15, a child. Teens are not known for their critical thinking skills.

Also, many British citizens are arrested in foreign countries and then serve out at least part of their sentences in the UK; it's common. What's not common is making somebody stateless. She's not even a dual national, she was only British.

She was groomed

A deliberately emotive phrase, she was an intelligent young woman who listened to and chose to accept a terrorist way of life.

We can't say "she's no longer Britain's responsibility" because fundamentally, she has to be someone's responsibility. You have to fall under the responsibility of some state. The UK is the only one with a reasonable responsibility for Begum, since she has never had Bangladeshi citizenship (the UK argues that she did or at least the claim for one, Bangladesh denies it). If the Kurds or Syrians wanted to try her, the UK could agree, but it seems that they do not want to try every 'Jihadi bride' (although I know in Iraq some women tried and sentenced, like Linda Wenzel) and it's not tenable that they have to keep all the women and children who lived under ISIS in refugee camps like Al Hawl for decades to come. Why should she be their responsibility, when she came to support a regime that devastated their country?

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

What's all this poor child rubbish? She's a fucking terrorist, leave her there to rot.

Very well said! All this use of the word 'child' is a way of excusing her terrorism, in reality it's merely a technicality. Many on this site are kinder to a terrorist than to a MIL!

Ms Begum was a child when she departed UK, a damaged dysfunctional child.Under 18 is a child.
She’s Radicalised Misguided,and dangerous young woman who needs treatment
UK need to give her legal counsel,support and try her under UK jurisdiction

She is British, end of.

The sole reason why she has been stripped of her citizenship is because she is brown, no other reason.
There are far far worse people in this country in prison who have committed heinous crimes yet they are allowed to go through the justice system, live in prison with opportunities for rehabilitation.
Any non-white person should be very afraid of these types of judgement, you or your family can get denied entry, citizenship stripped or get deported whereas your white counterparts can do whatever they want but still keep their rights.

The whole thing is outrageous and yes racist.

She should be allowed back into the UK to face trial and be charged.

Not letting her back is shameful. She was born here and we should take responsibility for her.

@poblwcymru

Like *@EachBleachBlairTrump* I am torn.

We all make stupid decisions at 15 although her mistake was of epic proportions. If it's true that 3 of her children have died she's had a traumatic 5 years and will suffer the effects of that forever. I don't believe she is sorry though and that puts so many people at risk if she were to return and radicalise others. Her human rights can't put thousands of others at risk.

She doesn't need to return to appeal though.

Yes. But also even back in 2020 /2021 she was still saying that ISIS was in the right. Even in 2020/21 she was determined to have a relationship / marriage with an ISIS fighter.Her husband wants her in the Neths with him. She wasn't brain washed then -nor in the previous 7 years. She called the beheading of an innocent man justified. She was a strict enforcer of the codes against women. She doesn't see crimes against woman by ISIS etc -as rape. She is not the innocent party here. She chose to go. `15 -years old well above the age of criminal responsibility. She is still married to an ISIS fighter. She has said she does not support British Values, she has said people who are 'enemies of Islam' deserve to be beheaded etc. She has not expressed any remorse for joining ISIS.Ergo I rest my case. She is entitled to apply for British Citzenship -it will be up to the courts to see if she gets it. Interestingly her Dutch husband is stripped of his citzenship - or at least they won't accept him back in the country -despite his citizenship and won't give her citzenship. Her own father says "he admits nothing she did is wrong and shows no remorse -none". She chose the life of ISIS -no one made her and even now -she shows no remorse.

She and her pals wish death on every one of you infidels on this thread. And your children. Catch onto yourselves, honestly.

[quote Iamuhtredsonofuhtred]@Dannydevitoiloveyourart Completely agree- this is setting a dangerous precedent for 2nd tier British citizens just because they are not white British. This would never happen to a white British person. They have effectively made her stateless as Bangladesh (a country she's never even visited) won't recognise her as a citizen.

I think she's an unsympathetic character. But she was not at an age she could even legally consent to sex, let alone join a terrorist organisation.[/quote]
It be in her best interests to stay where she is, I'm sure there is a good few Syrians who have fled their country to seek refuge in the UK that would love to get their hands on her and they won't be as forgiving as you!
Please don't turn this into a race thing, it's got eff all to do with race.

She lost her mother just before she left and her father remarried and she didn't get on with the new wife and went to live with her grandmother

Pass the violins! Losts of youngsters have a rotten home life, they don't all willingly go off to join a terrorist organisation

She wasn't 'groomed' she was radicalized.(As were her friends)

Islamics say that radicalisation doesn't happen in the mosques it happens on-line, so it was her parents fault that they didn't protect her by putting parental controls on her computer.

Even at 15 she should know right from wrong.

www.arabnews.com/node/1708041/world