Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

[Lillylolo]

Thanks all

[OliviaBensonsEyebrow]

I cannot get past the Yadzi mother who was force fed her baby because it's crying was irritating to an IS fighter. When he told her to stop the baby crying she explained the baby was crying because it was hungry and she was not sufficiently nourished to produce enough milk. The baby was taken from her, cooked and served to the mother. I wonder about the severity of her PTSD

My god, this is horrendous.

[OliviaBensonsEyebrow]

@Liquorishtoffee

She was portrayed as a bright kid, good student - yet she did seek this out.

You could say she was seduced and was starry eyed over the prospect of running off to marry her ‘warrior’ - yet - she was aware of the executions, she would have seen videos of the air pilots burned alive in a cage, the beheading videos, the slave markets... these kids had access to videos and Chat rooms. They were absolutely aware and desensitised.

She has downplayed her life (and her own participation) out there and has not shown shame or regret - or pity for anyone but herself.

British girls were notorious as the most vicious in these societies, and often give the job of ‘moral police’.

They were told they would be given homes, money and a life - did they really never question whose home and whose life were they stealing? Didn’t she say that she saw severed heads in a dustbin? Not ‘just a housewife’ as she said.

Well said. I think this ruling sets a good precedent.

[randomer]

What a lot of nonsense about bleeding hearts. Anybody who thinks, questions, wonders is written off as a leftie/bleeding heart/PC gone mad.

[Liquorishtoffee]

She was portrayed as a bright kid, good student - yet she did seek this out.

You could say she was seduced and was starry eyed over the prospect of running off to marry her ‘warrior’ - yet - she was aware of the executions, she would have seen videos of the air pilots burned alive in a cage, the beheading videos, the slave markets... these kids had access to videos and Chat rooms. They were absolutely aware and desensitised.

She has downplayed her life (and her own participation) out there and has not shown shame or regret - or pity for anyone but herself.

British girls were notorious as the most vicious in these societies, and often give the job of ‘moral police’.

They were told they would be given homes, money and a life - did they really never question whose home and whose life were they stealing? Didn’t she say that she saw severed heads in a dustbin? Not ‘just a housewife’ as she said.

[Thewithesarehere]

We will always have fanatics and should look at this from the point of view of social scientists, psychologists and criminologists.
We can’t simply call this a Muslim problem. FWIW, it’s the public (especially youth) of Muslim countries who are at the forefront of the firefighting that is needed to extinguish the fire of terrorism that, with extensive help/weapons/funds from the West, mostly the ruling elite of these countries started.

Here is this story that is so heart warming, it’s beyond words:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25663992

[DarkUnicorn]

@FOJN Agreed. Will try and muster some courage to watch it, Stacey Dooley has been involved in some good documentaries. Like you and Vinyl, that story will stay with me.

@SmileEachDay thanks for posting the link, will check it out.

[NowWhatUsernameShallIHave]

I am torn too.

At 15 she fundamentally knew right from wrong otherwise she would’ve told her family or friends. They’re are teenagers or kids younger than her that have been tried as adults (not saying it’s right).
Her not being allowed to return sets a precedent for others thinking of doing the same thing and yes maybe they are making an example of her but she made her choice.

On the other hand she was groomed and is a British citizen.

I wouldn’t however be happy for her to come back. SHe chose to be with her husband and against the U.K.

There are some decisions which the repercussions are non negotiable.

[Thewithesarehere]

@woodhill

It does explain why at times Islam seems so out of kilter with deep rooted Western beliefs even if people aren't practicing Christians. Instinctively it feels wrong to lie

I think this is offensive.
Crazy exists in every religion. I have family in the US and you will be amazed to hear some of the fanatical ideas there.
Lying is aso forbidden in all religions.
Shamima Begum has proven she is hardly anything but a fanatic so hardly belongs in any religion. You can’t use her example or ISIS to generalise about all Muslims, a people who have just given the world the first COVID vaccine.
Fanatics exist in every religion and society in many forms, religious or otherwise.

[Liquorishtoffee]

Or selling small girls into prostitution, raping women to death, brainwashing little boys into becoming terrorists, murdering, stealing, invading...

[MarieFromStTropez]

It seems inhuman to me to leave her where she is.

What, more inhuman than sewing people into suicide vests?

[DarkUnicorn]

@VinylDetective it is. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere, things need to change and the ruling is a good start.

[SmileEachDay]

www.warchild.org.uk/yazidi-appeal

This is a charity helping the Yazidi community, if anyone wants to donate.

[SmileEachDay]

It is a horrible story. I hope that snopes have it right.

[FOJN]

I hadn’t heard that before and I haven’t been able to get it out of my head since I read it. It’s honestly the worst thing I’ve ever heard.

I don't think I will ever forget it. I'm not a violent person at all but I would honestly have no problem putting a bullet in the animal that did that.

[FOJN]

DarkUnicorn

The story was included in a Stacey Dooley program aired in September 2016. I can't remember if it was the mother being interviewed or another Yazidi woman recounting the story. The program had the appalling title of "Girls, Guns and Isis" and was about Yazidi women fighting back, I was truly humbled. You may find it on YouTube if you have the stomach for it.

[VinylDetective]

[quote DarkUnicorn]@FOJN Can’t believe what I’ve just read about that poor mother and baby. Horrific beyond words.[/quote]
Dreadful, isn’t it? I hadn’t heard that before and I haven’t been able to get it out of my head since I read it. It’s honestly the worst thing I’ve ever heard.

[SmileEachDay]

It does explain why at times Islam seems so out of kilter with deep rooted Western beliefs even if people aren't practicing Christians. Instinctively it feels wrong to lie

It really doesn’t. It’s a very specific belief.

Jesuits have a very similar idea called equivocation - it allows them to lie to save themselves without offending god. Very similar idea I think. The Protestants were proper cross about it.

[DarkUnicorn]

@FOJN Can’t believe what I’ve just read about that poor mother and baby. Horrific beyond words.

[woodhill]

It does explain why at times Islam seems so out of kilter with deep rooted Western beliefs even if people aren't practicing Christians. Instinctively it feels wrong to lie

[SmileEachDay]

It means lying/not telling the truth which can be sanctioned in Islam

It seems - from some wider research. but I’m happy to be corrected by any Muslim scholars! - that it is a specific term that allows a Muslim to conceal their faith if they are at risk of persecution.

The website linked is a Christianity promoting anti Islamic site. I’d imagine that’s why previous posts linking to it have been deleted.

[Lalaloopsieloo]

@Puzzledandpissedoff that’s how I read it too yes.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Sorry, no - I'm mistaken and it was a different link ...

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

@AnitaB888 years ago I had a post deleted for mentioning that word; in fact I'm pretty sure I used the same link

Apparently it's preferred that we shouldn't know about it ...

[TeaLibrary]

OK to be totally honest I agreed with the judgement. I don't want SB to be let back into this country, I think she poses a serious security risk. Is there anyone who honestly and truly thinks that the government should be ordering British military personnel or diplomats from the foreign office into harms way to repatriate her from Syria. The government aren't going to offer her consular assistance or issue her with a passport. Even if the judgement had gone the other way she would still have had no way to escape the camp or be issued with travel documents.