Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

[TheKeatingFive]

they didn't revoke and citizenship, they refused to GIVE her one, not take it away.

Fair point.

Anyone who hand-on-heart thinks the UK has behaved properly here needs to give their head a wobble.

[Thewithesarehere]

I have many Muslim friends @VinylDetective.
All the women (and men), especially the ones who are first generation immigrants and are from countries that have faced/are facing terrorism, unanimously say she should not be dumped on a country that did not make her what she is now.
I agree we need more Muslim voices on this thread although I am pretty sure this representation can be achieved if our media decides to give some air time to these voices and opinions.
Has anyone seen any Syrian officials in media during any discussions of this case?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Presumably charities are allowed in as in the video of Begum walking around in the camp there’s a UNHCR banner in the background*
Do these charities and journalists give advice to the camp residents?

I can't comment on this particular camp, but certainly it's been reported that they have with others ... which may well explain why they often relate such uncannily similar stories and why so many appear to "lose" their passports

Of course that could equally be because of the circumstances they've experienced, but it's just one more thing that will probably never be proved

[Whammyyammy]

@TheKeatingFive

they didn't revoke and citizenship, they refused to GIVE her one, not take it away.

Fair point.

Anyone who hand-on-heart thinks the UK has behaved properly here needs to give their head a wobble.

If not welcoming terrorist supporters to our shores requires me to wobble my head, then ill wobble away .

[SmileEachDay]

If not welcoming terrorist supporters to our shores requires me to wobble my head, then ill wobble away

What’s so special about “our shores”? You’re ok with terrorist supporters being in other countries, are you?

[VinylDetective]

Has anyone seen any Syrian officials in media during any discussions of this case?

Nope. It would be interesting, wouldn’t it? Syria certainly doesn’t appear to be particularly perturbed by the presence of hundreds of terrorists on “its shores”.

[Whammyyammy]

@SmileEachDay

If not welcoming terrorist supporters to our shores requires me to wobble my head, then ill wobble away

What’s so special about “our shores”? You’re ok with terrorist supporters being in other countries, are you?

Id rather they were living under guard in camps in Syria, than the UK yes of course.

Id like to think 'our shores' are special as we don't support or tolerate terrorist activities, which was most evident when the supreme Court ruled to not allow the terrorist supporter SB.
She's living the life she chose.

[TheKeatingFive]

If not welcoming terrorist supporters to our shores requires me to wobble my head, then ill wobble away

Terrorists that are your own citizens, radicalised ‘on your shores’ that you’re now trying to make someone else’s problem?

Nice

[DarkUnicorn]

SB didn’t behave properly, she didn’t behave like a law abiding citizen. There are consequences to her actions and we are not responsible. She is Bangladeshi by descent, however I don’t blame Bangladesh for their current stance on the situation.

[SmileEachDay]

Id like to think 'our shores' are special as we don't support or tolerate terrorist activities

Do we not? She was a British citizen when she was radicalised. The British authorities had concerns and she was interviewed by the police, alongside 6 classmates.

3 of them ran.

The remaining 4 were taken into care to protect them from the effects of radicalisation.

But yeah. It’s totally Syria’s issue.

[Whammyyammy]

@TheKeatingFive

If not welcoming terrorist supporters to our shores requires me to wobble my head, then ill wobble away

Terrorists that are your own citizens, radicalised ‘on your shores’ that you’re now trying to make someone else’s problem?

Nice

I couldn't care less about her, I really couldn't. By leaving the UK of her own free will to join a terrorist organisation that wants to cause harm to UK citizens, she gave up that right.

[yellowspanner]

You can bet as many bottom dollars as you like.
I still think she should stay where she is.
She is not our problem anymore. She is not a UK citizen. You can argue that she should be if you want. But she isn't.
If another country left their terrorist here we would goal them.
I have wobbled my head.....still think she should stay where she is for as long as possible under armed guard. Or let Syria try her. I believe they still have the death penalty.

[TheKeatingFive]

I couldn't care less about her, I really couldn't.

It’s not about her or you, but the fact that it’s illegal, under international lose, to leave someone stateless.

[TheKeatingFive]

You can argue that she should be if you want. But she isn't.

I think you’ll find the international courts will sort you out on that one.

[secular89]

Can I ask the question?

To the people who say that SB is not showing remorse. Which I agree and it appears so during interviews with journalists. I have not seen anyone who has commented that perhaps SB is not showing any remorse due to her fear of what ISIS may do if she challenged or expressed remorse regarding their regime protocols?

Do you think SB is scared- rather not remorseful?

[Liquorishtoffee]

She could always say ‘I’m just saying that so that those idiots will take me back and I can do what I want when I get back there’.

[ChardonnaysPetDragon]

I think that if she was scared she wouldn’t be speaking to journalists at all.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I have not seen anyone who has commented that perhaps SB is not showing any remorse due to her fear of what ISIS may do if she challenged or expressed remorse regarding their regime protocols?

I don't know about this one but it's been said on endless other threads, and almost certainly it's what she'd be coached to say (truthfully or not) if she was ever tried in the UK

But it's just one more thing that could never be proved, so it comes down to whether or not we take the risk - somethng which the Supreme Court clearly took into consideration, going on the link upthread

[Lalaloopsieloo]

From UN Conventions on Statelessness:

2 .
This Convention shall not apply:
(i) Topersonswhoareatpresentreceivingfromorgansoragenciesofthe United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance so long as they are receiving such pro- tection or assistance;
(ii) To persons who are recognized by the competent authorities of the country in which they have taken residence as having the rights and obligations which are attached to the possession of the nationality of that country;
(iii)To persons with respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that:
(a) They have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instru- ments drawn up to make provisions in respect of such crimes;
(b) They have committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of their residence prior to their admission to that country;
(c) They have been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and princi- ples of the United Nations.

[Neotraditional]

@DazedandConcerned

The only regret I have in regards to this terrorist is that she wasn’t drone struck into a million pieces.

15 is over the age of criminal responsibility.

She has stated repeatedly she has no regrets.

She has stated repeatedly that she would not have left if IS had it not fell.

She has not rid herself of the ideology. She still supports it.

All of you bleeding hearts can have her living next to you! She is a terrorist. She will not change. She does not want to change. She is not stateless. She committed her crimes in Syria.

If I stabbed a guy to death in Paris do you think I’d be tried in France or could I beg off for an easier sentence here? Let her face Syrian justice.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[FOJN]

I have not seen anyone who has commented that perhaps SB is not showing any remorse due to her fear of what ISIS may do if she challenged or expressed remorse regarding their regime protocols?

I commented on this earlier. I would think fear was plausible but for the fact that she is now in a Kurdish controlled detention camp where expressing remorse would no doubt be to her advantage. She is currently safe from retaliatory action.

[Liquorishtoffee]

Yes I’ve seen interviews if people boasting about this and ‘fooling’ the enemy.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

That was interesting, Lalaloopsieloo, and if I've read it right the UN Conventions on Statelessness don't apply if she's "committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provisions in respect of such crimes"

Unlike some I don't pretend any special legal expertise, but I'd have thought that Shamima would surely qualify on at least some of that?

[TeaLibrary]

OK to be totally honest I agreed with the judgement. I don't want SB to be let back into this country, I think she poses a serious security risk. Is there anyone who honestly and truly thinks that the government should be ordering British military personnel or diplomats from the foreign office into harms way to repatriate her from Syria. The government aren't going to offer her consular assistance or issue her with a passport. Even if the judgement had gone the other way she would still have had no way to escape the camp or be issued with travel documents.