Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

I think the court made the right decision and have given clear justification for it. However at this point in time it's a moot point, SB is being held in a Kurdish controlled detention camp along with many other IS brides. It seems she is not permitted to leave or to have communication with the outside world. She would be able to pursue her appeal if she was released and able to instruct a lawyer. There are no circumstances under which I think the UK government has a duty to send anyone to Syria to rescue her, she is not a priority for government resources and I could not support an operation which endangered the lives of others, which it almost certainly would.

I can’t get past the decapticated heads in bins, she felt nothing for those people.

I cannot get past the Yadzi mother who was force fed her baby because it's crying was irritating to an IS fighter. When he told her to stop the baby crying she explained the baby was crying because it was hungry and she was not sufficiently nourished to produce enough milk. The baby was taken from her, cooked and served to the mother. I wonder about the severity of her PTSD.

SB supported the death cult which perpetrated this and many many other atrocities. I can accept she will be deeply traumatised by her experiences but I simply cannot find it in me to care.

Its got nothing to do with race, religion or her human rights. Its to do with the fact she joined a terrorist organisation, praised terror attacks against the UK and shows no remorse whatsoever.

What are you basing this rather eccentric opinion on? Can you give us an example?

Harry Vaughan

Are you going to pick holes in everything I say?

No, I’m not. I thought it was interesting that your assumption was that you hadn’t heard from a Muslim woman.

However, I’d hate to “bore” other posters, so I won’t respond to you any more

Absolutely Fojn
The images that were widely circulated of very young Yazidi girls would probably have been among the images that SB viewed and was ‘ ok with’ as it was ‘ Islamic’.
I believe the court made the right decision too. There is information that we are not privy to. She is deemed a threat to national security.

Why do people keeping saying that this woman is a British citizen.
She is not.
When her UK citizenship was revoked she still had the option of Bangladeshi citizenship. The fact that she has never been to Bangladesh has nothing to do with it.
Bangladesh, quite sensibly said they didn't want her. I can't blame them. However, Bangladesh made her stateless.
I hope she never returns and stays in the camp under guard for ever.
She is evil. I don't care why she is evil. But she is.

I cannot get past the Yadzi mother who was force fed her baby because it's crying was irritating to an IS fighter. When he told her to stop the baby crying she explained the baby was crying because it was hungry and she was not sufficiently nourished to produce enough milk. The baby was taken from her, cooked and served to the mother. I wonder about the severity of her PTSD

A pity the same issue wasn't presented to Shamima herself during one of her interviews; her response might well have influenced those so keen to see she gets her "rights"

Or maybe not ...

It is ok for UK to deport child groomers back to their birth country but why can't we accept our criminals back?

She was British when she joined ISIS and she should be returned to face the music back in this country. How can they expect Syria to deal with her? They have their own problems of trying to rebuild a war torn country.

Why should they . She is our problem.

When her UK citizenship was revoked she still had the option of Bangladeshi citizenship. The fact that she has never been to Bangladesh has nothing to do with it

Bangladesh, quite sensibly said they didn't want her. I can't blame them. However, Bangladesh made her stateless.

This is a dick move of the U.K. and shows an appalling inability to take responsibility for their own problems.

If any country did that to you, you’d be up in arms. And you know it.

It is ok for UK to deport child groomers back to their birth country but why can't we accept our criminals back?

To form a view on that I'd need to know how many have actually been deported and how many remain here, battening on our hospitality and forming a useful focus for the anti-deportation crowd who seem to think their human rights matter more than those of the rest of us

This is a dick move of the U.K. and shows an appalling inability to take responsibility for their own problems

Yes. International law should not be a case of “well you touched her last” The UK govt knew she’d lived here for 15 years, knew she’d never been to Bangladesh, knew it was here that the radicalisation happened.
They took advantage of her Bangladeshi heritage - if she hadn’t had that, presumably they would not have been able to remove her citizenship?

Yes. International law should not be a case of “well you touched her last” The UK govt knew she’d lived here for 15 years, knew she’d never been to Bangladesh, knew it was here that the radicalisation happened.

Exactly

She's not a British Citizen anymore as she has been stripped of it so she's not our problem. She should be tried by the Syrians, they were her victims and she seemed pretty unrepentant at 19 when interviewed in the camp so hardly a young, innocent child still.

People will be making excuses for her forever, however, if she was a 15 year old white girl who joined a far-right organisation MNetters would be calling for her to be locked up without trial. Perhaps the ones who want her back can subsidise her costs and the costs of protecting the British public from her and her friends? There are so many more individuals deserving of our concern than people like her.

she was a 15 year old white girl who joined a far-right organisation MNetters would be calling for her to be locked up without trial

This was touched on earlier in the thread. Far right extremism is a burgeoning problem in the UK. The radicalisation process is hugely damaging for young people - they need skilled re education in the same way any other young person who has been radicalised does.
That re education needs to be along side appropriate punishments for any crimes committed.

It appears the UK is far from alone in removing citizenship from isis members, most EU countries are doing the same thing including Denmark. Australia is taking the same stance.

If Syria had any desire to get rid of the prisoners in its camps it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect it to give them access to legal representation but it’s not.

A 15 white girl involved in far right terrorism should be tried and dealt with in a way that takes her age and vulnerability into account. Do you think any reasonable person would want her (the white teenage girl) exiled and made stateless? Banishment is rather an archaic punishment.

Shamima Begum should likewise be tried and dealt with in the UK.

If it is not possible to repatriate her due to circumstances on the ground at her current location then that is another matter.

I believe that stripping her citizenship was a political move primarily.

Perhaps she is dangerous, perhaps not. If she is wouldn’t it be better if she were held securely in the UK?

The Supreme Court deciding Begum is a threat to national security is nothing to do with far right extremism.

However I know the issue of whato do with all the ISIS brides and their children where they are not Syrian is a hugely difficult one for those not tried and convicted out there. Thankfully those with 2 passports etc are not a British problem. We have enough problems on home turf at the moment.

I don't think it would be better if she were here. Our systems are pretty bad - loads of people who should be watched aren't as we don't have the money and plenty disappear and it would be expensive. I would rather the money went on people in the UK or the Yazidis or the kurds.

If Syria had any desire to get rid of the prisoners in its camps it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect it to give them access to legal representation but it’s not.

I hadn’t thought of that but it’s a good point.
Presumably charities are allowed in as in the video of Begum walking around in the camp there’s a UNHCR banner in the background.
Do these charities and journalists give advice to the camp residents?

Whenever someone young has committed a heinous crime the British public has been very happy to have them jailed and watched and away from the public for all their lives.

SB is no different. Her actions, along with other women and men, have led to mass murder and other hideous crimes. She is still brainwashed and lacking in remorse. She could easily be used as a role model to recruit and inspire more mass murders. Those wanting her back, how would you feel if one of your DC ended up dead in an attack inspired by her?

I see SB as no different to any other young person who has committed a hideous crime where we have thrown the book at them and held them responsible.

Thekeatingfive.
If any other country did what we have done I would not be up in arms.
Stop trying to give me opinions.
I hope she stays where she is under armed guard.

@yellowspanner I bet my bottom dollar you'd be up in arms if it was the UK that another country and had done it to.

I bet my bottom dollar you'd be up in arms if it was the UK that another country and had done it to.

Here’s another bottom dollar.

@catspider you can say that she's no longer British all you like, the decision to revoke her citizenship will be overturned eventually as it is illegal to make someone stateless so you may has well get over it.

A 15 white girl involved in far right terrorism should be tried and dealt with in a way that takes her age and vulnerability into account. Do you think any reasonable person would want her (the white teenage girl) exiled and made stateless? Banishment is rather an archaic punishment.

Race is irrelevant in this case, Shamima Begum is a terrorist. We should be very careful about using accusations of racism to silence people; the girls of Rochdale paid the price when police took no action for fear of being accused of racism.

SB is no longer 15 years of age, she was at liberty in Syria supporting terrorist activities until she was 19, she has not expressed any remorse for her actions. She is being held by the Kurds and safe from reprisals from ISIS if she were to denounce their extremist ideology, she is now 21 and has not done so.

SB has been neither exiled nor banished. She left the UK of her own volition after what must have been a lengthy period of planning which would have given her plenty of time to reconsider her actions, she did not do so. She is only stateless because IS failed otherwise she would have accepted citizenship of the caliphate. Her desire to return to the UK now is no doubt motivated by concern that she will be handed over to the Syrian government who may not be too bothered about employing a fair judicial process to decide her fate, I suspect there will be summary executions for IS prisoners.

Her more serious crimes were not committed on British soil so we would not have jurisdiction to try her for them and as such no legal means to deprive her of liberty to keep everyone else safe. There are currently 2500 British citizens in prison in other countries, we do not insist they should be repatriated and tried for their crimes here. We do not have the right to help a British citizen avoid punishment when they commit crimes abroad.

I view her current statelessness as the British government simply formalising her own wishes.

To those saying Bangladesh revoked her citizenship second, rendering her stateless. She was never officially a Bangladesh citizen, they didn't revoke and citizenship, they refused to GIVE her one, not take it away.