Page 36 | Shamima Begum cannot return.....

Lillylolo · 2021-02-26T20:40:13+00:00

What are your opinions? I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh. However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk. This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

randomer · 28/02/2021 08:27

Somebody will do a thesis on why the press focussed on a plain looking , scowling girl from Bethnal Green whilst hundreds of others slipped under the radar and are now living amongst us.

AnitaB888 · 28/02/2021 08:29

@TheKeatingFive,

"How would people in the U.K. feel if other countries starting pulling stunts like that on them?"

They already do.

You can apply for British Citizenship if you have a British parent.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:33

They already do.

Quit being disingenuous.

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 08:34

@TheKeatingFive

she has the right to obtain a Bangladeshi one as linked above which is where her father lives.

She doesn’t. It was revoked. The UK are making her stateless.

Wrong. The U.K. stripped her citizenship first. She therefore was not stateless but had her Bangladesh citizenship.

Bangladesh then stripped her citizenship second therefore she was made stateless by Bangladesh not the UK. Which is perfectly legal for Bangladesh to do as Bangladesh has not signed the 1961 UN Convention on Statelessness.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:36

She therefore was not stateless but had her Bangladesh citizenship

TOTALLY disingenuous, she’d never stepped foot on the country.

Can you answer this btw?

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K.

Xenia · 28/02/2021 08:36

The UK has withdrawn a lot of passports of people who have two on these grounds. It was 150 I think by 2017.

Also in this case she is in a camp in Syria. Some others made it back to their home countries around the world whilst the fighting was still going on out there.
Her Dutch husband Yago Riedijk is in prison in Syria I presume in much worst conditions than she is in in the camp.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:38

The UK has withdrawn a lot of passports of people who have two on these grounds. It was 150 I think by 2017.

She never had two passports though.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 08:39

@TheKeatingFive

They already do.

Quit being disingenuous.

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K.

Most countries have stripped ISIS terrorists of their citizenship US, UK, Canada, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Australia etc

This is not uncommon. Do a few searches.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:40

Most countries have stripped ISIS terrorists of their citizenship

That’s not what I asked. Can you answer my question?

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 08:41

@TheKeatingFive

She therefore was not stateless but had her Bangladesh citizenship

TOTALLY disingenuous, she’d never stepped foot on the country.

Can you answer this btw?

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K.

So what? You can be a citizen of a country at birth due to descent/heritage. You don’t have to ever go there your entire life. The UK has a whole system by which British Citizens born abroad can apply for British passports, if they want to.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 08:42

@TheKeatingFive

Most countries have stripped ISIS terrorists of their citizenship

That’s not what I asked. Can you answer my question?

Google is you friend. I’m not going to waste my morning digging up specific cases to score points online. This is not uncommon. It is so common, it’s nit usually even newsworthy.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:42

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K

Anyone prepared to answer this instead of skirting round the point?

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 08:43

I’m not going to waste my morning digging up specific cases to score points online

So no.

Cheers

SmileEachDay · 28/02/2021 08:44

So - and this is a separate argument to her radicalisation - she is stateless and the UK is the place she was born and lived for 15 years as a citizen.

How is it ok to argue that it’s Bangladesh’s problem because of the potential for citizenship (that never legally happened)?

Xenia · 28/02/2021 08:56

We did not render her stateless. If anyone did Bangladesh did. Also she is married to a Dutchman. I have not looked into it and he is in prison in Syria but she might have rights in Holland through her marriage.

She should have thought of that before going off to a group who throw gays off a high roof, slit throats and rape yazidi girls and all the rest. It is an issue for British people by the way with an Irish granny who get a second passport for their children from Ireland - it is not always a one way positive thing to have the two. It can come with risks of losing one or extra tax (Boris J has two - US and UK and at one point was going to have to pay USA capital against tax on sale of a family home as subject to double taxation due to having the 2 passports).

"Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K".
I have not searched but I think the legal issue is not about applying for a passport but whether you are a citizen automatically of that other country because your parents were born there in this case. The UK certainly revoked rights for about 150 ISIS dual citizens as far as I can see.

www.ejiltalk.org/shamima-begum-may-be-a-bangladeshi-citizen-after-all/ is quite a good summary. It says she is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent - so it is automatic, not something she needs to apply for - as her parents were born there.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 08:58

@SmileEachDay

So - and this is a separate argument to her radicalisation - she is stateless and the UK is the place she was born and lived for 15 years as a citizen.

How is it ok to argue that it’s Bangladesh’s problem because of the potential for citizenship (that never legally happened)?

It’s not Bangladesh’s problem because they stripped her of her citizenship too and they legally made her stateless as they never agreed to the UN Convention on Statelessness.

It’s all now Shamina Begums problem that she is stateless. She is one of 4.6 million people in the world who are stateless.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 09:00

*4.16 million. Typing to fast. From statista

www.statista.com/statistics/268720/number-of-stateless-people-worldwide/

SmileEachDay · 28/02/2021 09:07

It’s all now Shamina Begums problem that she is stateless. She is one of 4.6 million people in the world who are stateless

And that’s not ok. I don’t imagine making people stateless does anything to help stop terrorism. In fact, I’d imagine it would further exacerbate the issue.

In terms of Begum - her Bangladeshi citizenship was never “activated” was it? But the potential for this citizenship is what allowed the uk to take away her British citizenship? I’d that right?

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 09:24

@TheKeatingFive

Give me an example of another country that has revoked a criminal’s citizenship and justified it on the grounds that they could apply for U.K. citizenship, despite that person never setting foot in the U.K

Anyone prepared to answer this instead of skirting round the point?

Fine, found one although not a criminal like Begum, just criticised the Modi government. Writer, Aatish Taseer was stripped of his Indian citizenship on a technicality- they said that because his U.K. father had been a Pakistani politician, he was not an Indian citizen born abroad despite being born of an Indian mother in the US. Where he currently lives. He now only has U.K. citizenship from his father and has never set foot in the UK. But as he’s not a criminal, the US has no intention of revoking his visa and deporting him. But US law is clear that if he did commit a crime, he would be deported to the U.K. a place he has never set foot in...

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 09:25

@SmileEachDay

It’s all now Shamina Begums problem that she is stateless. She is one of 4.6 million people in the world who are stateless

And that’s not ok. I don’t imagine making people stateless does anything to help stop terrorism. In fact, I’d imagine it would further exacerbate the issue.

In terms of Begum - her Bangladeshi citizenship was never “activated” was it? But the potential for this citizenship is what allowed the uk to take away her British citizenship? I’d that right?

Her Bangladeshi citizenship by “activated” when she was born as it is citizenship by descent. Many British citizens are born this way- born of a British citizen while abroad.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/02/2021 09:29

@SmileEachDay
don’t imagine making people stateless does anything to help stop terrorism. In fact, I’d imagine it would further exacerbate the issue.

Actually, it reduces terrorism because the former terrorist can no longer get a passport to travel anywhere and commit terror crimes. They have lost the privilege of international travel and must stay put wherever will give them a residency visa.

TheKeatingFive · 28/02/2021 09:30

Fine, found one although not a criminal like Begum

In your own words. Not. A. Criminal.

So not remotely comparable

SmileEachDay · 28/02/2021 09:31

Because she was under 21, Plan?

I can see the legality of it.

Morally? It’s reprehensible, as the UK demonstrably failed to protect her as a child.

SmileEachDay · 28/02/2021 09:35

Actually, it reduces terrorism because the former terrorist can no longer get a passport to travel anywhere and commit terror crimes. They have lost the privilege of international travel and must stay put wherever will give them a residency visa

I’d love to see the research that backs that up. There is more to terrorism than travel - I’d think having a group of entirely disenfranchised people who have very little left to lose would make excellent grist for the terrorist mill.

DaisiesandButtercups · 28/02/2021 09:37

@Testingtimesheet

She was a child who was groomed. There’s no getting away from it. There are bombers/violent men/extremists in the UK who haven’t had their nationality taken but this one girl who ran away to get married and hasn’t hurt anyone has had her nationality taken. I have a child slightly younger and at 15 she was angry, hormonal and believing anything she heard on TikTok. I am just lucky that nobody tried to radicalise her.

This

She was a 15 year old girl who was groomed and then couldn’t escape from the horrific situation she was lured into. She was failed by those who should have protected her. She was just a child.