Page 22 | Shamima Begum cannot return.....

Lillylolo · 2021-02-26T20:40:13+00:00

What are your opinions? I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh. However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk. This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 27/02/2021 10:28

She isn't a British citizen now. Her British citizenship was removed.

And will be reinstated by courts in due course due to the illegality of removing it in the first place. This is the general consensus among legal experts (I’m not an international or human rights law expert but I am a lawyer and I’ll defer to the opinions of those experts over random racists armchair lawyers like you on this thread).

Belladonna12 · 27/02/2021 10:30

Every country should take care of its own terrorists. It’s far bigger than them and us now.

Normally the country that prosecutes would be the one where the crime took place. It isn't to do with where the person is a citizen . If the crime wasn't committed in the UK we wouldn't generally bring the person back to the UK to prosecute.

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 27/02/2021 10:30

@Iflyaway

Couldn't she apply to live in the Netherlands where her husband is from? I think he is back there himself, but I've never seen this option mentioned is discounted.

I doubt their marriage was even legal, or registered anywhere so she hasn't a leg to stand on as far as Dutch law is concerned or a claim to citizenship.

I seem to have read that he was in jail/dead. His family have disowned him in any case.

The Netherlands has already said it doesn’t recognise child marriage since she was a child and her husband an adult when they wed.

Her husband is in jail in Syria so won’t bother the Netherlands for a while until he’s allowed out (if that ever happens).

Belladonna12 · 27/02/2021 10:30

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

She isn't a British citizen now. Her British citizenship was removed.

And will be reinstated by courts in due course due to the illegality of removing it in the first place. This is the general consensus among legal experts (I’m not an international or human rights law expert but I am a lawyer and I’ll defer to the opinions of those experts over random racists armchair lawyers like you on this thread).

I also think it will be reinstated. I don't have much of a problem with her staying there in the meantime.

Thewithesarehere · 27/02/2021 10:34

@Belladonna12

Every country should take care of its own terrorists. It’s far bigger than them and us now.

Normally the country that prosecutes would be the one where the crime took place. It isn't to do with where the person is a citizen . If the crime wasn't committed in the UK we wouldn't generally bring the person back to the UK to prosecute.

I agree with this. However, Syria has no resources to fight its own terrorists and terrorists from other countries too.

This is why I keep asking everyone on this thread: imagine you are ISIS, imagine you have girl trapped in your camp (who can’t leave apparently, hence trapped), now imagine she has her face splashed on newspapers all over U.K. and is giving interviews etc.
How come they haven’t executed her yet?
And how come British government is doing exactly what ISIS wants them to do?

Has any one thought of this for a second?

Dugee · 27/02/2021 10:34

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

She isn't a British citizen now. Her British citizenship was removed.

And will be reinstated by courts in due course due to the illegality of removing it in the first place. This is the general consensus among legal experts (I’m not an international or human rights law expert but I am a lawyer and I’ll defer to the opinions of those experts over random racists armchair lawyers like you on this thread).

We can all claim to be anything on an anonymous chat board.

The British public do not want the Shamima Begums of the world to be allowed to live here. The current Government understand that.

Perhaps public opinion has been hardened due to the terrorist atrocities we have had inflicted on us over the last 20 years. Whether you like it or not.

RandomLondoner · 27/02/2021 10:36

Lots of people on the thread are claiming that she is stateless, yet I don't believe British law would allow British politicians to make her stateless, so I've felt the need to resolve this contradiction.

From a BBC article I learned that under the Bangladeshi law that makes her a citizen, if she does nothing to retain her citizenship by the age of 21, her citizenship automatically expires. So if she was stripped of her British citizenship before her 21st birthday, she was not made stateless by Britain's actions. What has made her stateless, at a later date, is Bangladeshi law. So technically, it is Bangladesh not Britain that has breached the international obligation never to make someone stateless.

(I believe that morally we should not be using a legal technicality to dump her on Bangladesh.)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47310206

Thewithesarehere · 27/02/2021 10:36

@Dugee
You are gain showing how xenophobic you are. For a Syrian and an Afghani, shamima begums and Osmama bin Ladens of this world are created by the U.K. and not their countries.

Lemonsyellow · 27/02/2021 10:37

This is why I keep asking everyone on this thread: imagine you are ISIS, imagine you have girl trapped in your camp (who can’t leave apparently, hence trapped), now imagine she has her face splashed on newspapers all over U.K. and is giving interviews etc. How come they haven’t executed her yet?

She’s not in an ISIS camp, though.

StarlightandSunlight · 27/02/2021 10:38

If the Gov were so sure that they legally revoked her citizenship then I don't think they would be trying so hard with the delaying tactics.

It's not like they haven't acted illegally before in removing someone's citizenship

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 27/02/2021 10:40

The British public Daily mail readership do not want the Shamima Begums of the world to be allowed to live here. The current Government understand that.

Fixed it for you.

She’s a British citizen - you don’t get to decide she’s not. British criminals should face the British justice system. It’s not hard to understand.

You don’t have to believe I’m a lawyer - that’s not the point really. The point is you’re commenting using illogical and racist arguments on a legal issue you fundamentally misunderstand.

chocolateorangeinhaler · 27/02/2021 10:44

All the people on here desperately wringing their hands and saying she's the uk's problem and she needs to be back are utterly sick.
Remember all the children blown to pieces at a concert by a terrorist believing in the same as her. Shall we just all shrug and say it was all the fault of the uk, not his fault at all for planning and then carrying out an attack? What a slap in the face to the victims and their families. There was also interviews where she stated she didn't regret any of it and still believes in the ideology. Keep her well away from the western world. Anyone who feels sorry for her is free to hop on a plane when allowed on a one way ticket to keep her company.

babybythesea · 27/02/2021 10:44

*Dugee: We can all claim to be anything on an anonymous chat board.

The British public do not want the Shamima Begums of the world to be allowed to live here. The current Government understand that.

Perhaps public opinion has been hardened due to the terrorist atrocities we have had inflicted on us over the last 20 years. Whether you like it or not.*

Are you then equally happy in this scenario:
A Syrian comes here and commits a terrorist offence. Syria then promptly strips him of his Syrian citizenship. They don’t want him back because he committed his crime on British soil and they don’t want to endanger Syrians. So we say “Let’s deport him” but where to? He doesn’t belong anywhere because he has no citizenship so we can’t actually get rid of him at all...
The Syrian public don’t want him and the Syrian gvt understand that. The Syrian National opinion has been hardened after years of terrorism in their country. We can just keep him, it’s our problem now...

Blackberrycream · 27/02/2021 10:46

@Thewithesarehere
Do you realise how offensive it is to use accusations of racism against posters who do agree with your viewpoints. Talk about a shot in the foot. It’s really not helping as a pp said and bleeding hearts such as you do give fuel.
Please save that for people who have been victims not someone who went out to abuse other women and clearly threw herself fully into her role.

Blackberrycream · 27/02/2021 10:47

do not agree

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 27/02/2021 10:47

@chocolateorangeinhaler

All the people on here desperately wringing their hands and saying she's the uk's problem and she needs to be back are utterly sick. Remember all the children blown to pieces at a concert by a terrorist believing in the same as her. Shall we just all shrug and say it was all the fault of the uk, not his fault at all for planning and then carrying out an attack? What a slap in the face to the victims and their families. There was also interviews where she stated she didn't regret any of it and still believes in the ideology. Keep her well away from the western world. Anyone who feels sorry for her is free to hop on a plane when allowed on a one way ticket to keep her company.

Is it a slap in the face to victims’ families to keep Harold Shipman and other serial killers in the uk?

Or is that brand of crime more in keeping with western ideology?

FrostyChocolateMilkshake · 27/02/2021 10:47

@Thewithesarehere I don't want to carry on arguing with you as we will go round in circles. We have differing views on the subject. I think she should stay in Syria where she now belongs. You think she should be brought "home" to the country she fled to turn against
Let's leave it now, it's a Saturday and I'm sure we both have things to do!

MrsMercedes · 27/02/2021 10:48

How would she get back to the U.K.?

StarlightandSunlight · 27/02/2021 10:52

I see western ideology as there not being a general acceptance of a government breaking laws, never mind being applauded while doing it

WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly · 27/02/2021 10:53

She is a British problem. She should be returned to her home country (which is Britain, just to reiterate for the racists out there) to face justice.

The UK can prosecute people for crimes carried out abroad. They prosecute paedophiles coming back from Thailand and Cambodia for crimes they commited over there. What they can't do is revoke the paedophiles' citizenship while they're in Bangkok, leaving them stateless and stuck in a place of limbo. The UK has a responsibility to it's citizens which includes prosecuting them to the full extent of the law. Washing their hands of problematic people and leaving them in developing countries is not acceptable.

SittinOnTheDockOfTheBay · 27/02/2021 10:54

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

The British public Daily mail readership do not want the Shamima Begums of the world to be allowed to live here. The current Government understand that.

Fixed it for you.

She’s a British citizen - you don’t get to decide she’s not. British criminals should face the British justice system. It’s not hard to understand.

You don’t have to believe I’m a lawyer - that’s not the point really. The point is you’re commenting using illogical and racist arguments on a legal issue you fundamentally misunderstand.

The Daily Mail is the second most widely read newspaper in the U.K. Therefore it is a good indicator of public opinion.

MrsMercedes · 27/02/2021 10:55

@WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly

Returned how? Who is going to get her?

SittinOnTheDockOfTheBay · 27/02/2021 10:57

From a BBC article I learned that under the Bangladeshi law that makes her a citizen, if she does nothing to retain her citizenship by the age of 21, her citizenship automatically expires. So if she was stripped of her British citizenship before her 21st birthday, she was not made stateless by Britain's actions. What has made her stateless, at a later date, is Bangladeshi law. So technically, it is Bangladesh not Britain that has breached the international obligation never to make someone stateless.

Needs repeating for the "lawyers" on here.

VinylDetective · 27/02/2021 10:57

@MrsMercedes

How would she get back to the U.K.?

And that’s a very sensible question. Presumably she’d have to go through some formal process to be released from the camp. She would then need to be accompanied back to the UK before being taken to a secure unit of some sort. Who would be deemed suitable?

WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly · 27/02/2021 11:00

[quote MrsMercedes]@WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly

Returned how? Who is going to get her?[/quote]
Is this a joke question? Of course there are ways to take people out of Syria and bring them to the UK. How do you think aid workers get in and out? It's not closes like North Korea. There are regular military and medical aid flights or transit via different countries. She doesn't have to catch Ryanair back to Gatwick.