Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

Have just read in the other thread....she can’t just leave the camp she’s in

So how, without lives lost, do you all suggest she ‘gets out’??

@Thewithesarehere

I don’t think our home grown terrorism is anyone’s responsibility but ours. For far too long, we have instated and funded terrorism abroad. It’s time to own it.

Until your child gets murdered at an Ariana Grande concert of course.

I'm a bit shocked at people comparing a 15 year old being radicalised into joining ISIS, to 11-12 year olds being gang raped and tortured in the Rochdale 'grooming gang' cases.

Completely different. Shamima was not gang raped or tortured.

@Porcupineintherough

I dont think that argument holds water baby. What we decide here in our courts sets a prescedent for us only. It has little influence on what other countries do or dont do in their's.

I dont think Britain should be able to arbitrarily strip people of British citizenship but that's a separate issue than unable to deport foreign criminals.

Yes. The precedent is set in British law. But what it to stop other countries doing the same thing in their country and saying “You did it” if we protest that we don’t want their criminals here....

@JourneyToThePlacentaOfTheEarth

She definitely should not be allowed back to the UK. I as a black woman am terrified of the inevitable right wing backlash if she came back and more people turning to white nationalism as a result. Priti Patel gets it and is making clear who she stands with. I'm not scared of shamima. I'm scared of the focal point she's become

As a fellow black woman I’m more concerned about the 2 tier citizenship that’s being created- first tier for ethnically white Brits and second tier for all us brown and black people.

This is bigger than nationalism, and bigger than this particular case. It’s the undercurrent of racism that led to deporting Caribbean Brits for no reason in the windrush scandal. And now stripping a British woman who has no other claim to citizenship from another state - leaving her stateless (and only on the grounds that her race is Bangladeshi even though she has no legal right to Bangladeshi citizenship).

My concern is for the next arbitrary reason the Home Office will use to deport and strip ethnic minority British citizens of their legal rights - it might be terrorism today but who knows what it will be tomorrow. The British Caribbeans who came here as British citizens in post war UK I’m sure had no idea that the UK would be capable of deporting them in such humiliating and illegal fashion.

@Dugee
Then it becomes even more crucial to stop it because we have the resources. Syria and Bengladesh don’t.
Also, I have no idea why it’s even fair to assume that if you play with fire, it won’t burn you.

@ginghamstarfish

I'm amazed that the courts have decided this, and good for them. The legal system usually seems to work in favour of people like this who clearly do NOT deserve to get back into the UK. I'm sure some 'celebrity' bleeding heart will champion her cause at some point - using the words 'innocent teen girl/was groomed ...' blah blah. Good riddance. Let her face justice where she was captured.

Lily Allen seems to be staying quiet on this one. Wonder why.

Cry her a river she chose to leave and live under a regime that did not care for the human rights of others or the law of the lands which they invaded. She stayed until the bitter end. She should face justice in Syria.

@Puzzledandpissedoff
We all know that is exactly what will happen and why some are so keen that she can return to pursue her case.
I’m also starting to get a little suspicious that there is involvement from a group that are supporting her in her case on this thread. Some of the lines are word for word. Good publicity I guess.

@MrsMercedes

Have just read in the other thread....she can’t just leave the camp she’s in

So how, without lives lost, do you all suggest she ‘gets out’??

This is a point a lot of people are simply ignoring. ISIS poster girl is something we have handed to her on a plate. How come they haven’t killed her yet? What purpose is she serving for their campaign?

Shamima’s case is equivalent of dropping your bin on neighbour’s drive so it does not stay your problem anymore.

I think it's a bit more serious than fly tipping.

I have no sympathy for her. She may have only been 15 when she left the UK but that is old enough to understand right from wrong. Even if she is British, why should we bring her back so that she can murder innocent people? She committed crimes in another country and it is not our job to bring her to the UK and try to prove it.

@Dugee That wasn't her dad although I've seen lots of people say it was

[quote Blackberrycream]@Puzzledandpissedoff
We all know that is exactly what will happen and why some are so keen that she can return to pursue her case.
I’m also starting to get a little suspicious that there is involvement from a group that are supporting her in her case on this thread. Some of the lines are word for word. Good publicity I guess.[/quote]
It’s excellent publicity for the government and for ISIS.

She is of Bangladeshi heritage though. When people choose to come here for the benefits of living in a western society, they need to realise that they are expected to behave in a responsible way too. Shamima Begum hasn't demonstrated that she should have the right to live in a western country, in fact she has only demonstrated that she wants to attack, kill and maim westerners. So why should she have the right to live here?

She was born here, raised here and is a British citizen. Nothing to do with Bangladesh except her race. Are all the British peadophiles, IRA terrorists and serial killers who faced justice under the UK system and kept their citizenship behaving with western values? Or does that right to live in a western country regardless of your crimes only apply to white westerners?

Sadly you’ll never realise how racist your comments on this thread really are.

100% this @Dannydevitoiloveyourart

I think all the discussion about was she groomed / radicalised / a child / absolutely complicit / unremorseful / unable to show remorse in a camp full of ISIS is just totally misplaced.

Radicalised child victim full of remorse, desperate to come home and willing to serve a sentence here, but cannot say so or ISIS will shoot her dead in the camp?

Pure evil terrorist who only wants back here because she already has bomb planting plans?

None of that actually matters at this stage.

What matters is that she is British, and should not be stripped of citizenship when it will leave her stateless. She is not Bangladeshi.

So accept her back to her home country. And then you can decide - within the British legal framework - on all the points of her actions, her culpability, her remorse. But none of that is relevant to her citizenship.

@Dugee

Shamima’s case is equivalent of dropping your bin on neighbour’s drive so it does not stay your problem anymore.

I think it's a bit more serious than fly tipping.

Yup I agree. It’s more like dropping a small nuke and Hope it doesn’t obliterate your house too. What people can’t seem to see is that it is not a small bullet (not that a bullet should be allowed).

therefore stripping her of British citizenship is illegal.

Incorrect.

Perhaps they are basing their eccentric opinion on jihadi jack. Because he is white and hasn't been stripped of citizenship. Oh wait, yes he has.

@dugee The hilarious thing is the arrogance in your posts because you’re ignorant to how idiotic your arguments are

As has been said several times during this thread the issue is leaving a British citizen stateless.

Jack Letts isn’t any sort of comparable example since he is a Canadian citizen - hence the legality of removing his British citizenship.

Dugee

She is of Bangladeshi heritage though. When people choose to come here for the benefits of living in a western society, they need to realise that they are expected to behave in a responsible way too. Shamima Begum hasn't demonstrated that she should have the right to live in a western country, in fact she has only demonstrated that she wants to attack, kill and maim westerners. So why should she have the right to live here?

Do you have even a sliver of insight into how racist, ignorant and offensive your post is? I'm freshly amazed by the level of bigotry in here.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

She is of Bangladeshi heritage though. When people choose to come here for the benefits of living in a western society, they need to realise that they are expected to behave in a responsible way too. Shamima Begum hasn't demonstrated that she should have the right to live in a western country, in fact she has only demonstrated that she wants to attack, kill and maim westerners. So why should she have the right to live here?

She was born here, raised here and is a British citizen. Nothing to do with Bangladesh except her race. Are all the British peadophiles, IRA terrorists and serial killers who faced justice under the UK system and kept their citizenship behaving with western values? Or does that right to live in a western country regardless of your crimes only apply to white westerners?

Sadly you’ll never realise how racist your comments on this thread really are.

She isn't a British citizen now. Her British citizenship was removed.

@ChocolateSantaisthebestkind

Cry her a river she chose to leave and live under a regime that did not care for the human rights of others or the law of the lands which they invaded. She stayed until the bitter end. She should face justice in Syria.

I have no problem with her facing justice in the country in which she committed her crime. I’m not even concerned, at this point, with the arguments around whether she was a child, is remorseful, should have sympathy or not....

My main concern is that we cannot just choose to deprive someone of their citizenship. If we do this now, then it needs to be in the full knowledge that the consequences will rumble on well beyond Begum.

While countries can choose whether or not to follow our lead, if we choose to say that SB has committed a crime somewhere else and is therefore no longer our citizen, what is to stop Syria saying “Joe Bloggs, who was born in Syria, came to the U.K. to commit his crime, therefore he is no longer Syrian and we won’t let him back into the country.” It could potentially impact us being able to deport any prisoner of a foreign nationality. Their country of birth could just say “We’ve made a ruling that we have stripped them of their citizenship for our country. They came to you, did bad things with you, so they stay with you. Not our problem now.”
Which is what we are doing.

It’s not about her. It’s about the effect that this could have on how countries deal with foreign born criminals - are you prepared for anyone to be able to say “You can’t send them back because they are no longer a citizen here.” That could well backfire on the U.K....

I don’t like some of the analogies I am using here.
But if you breed and help breed a few rabid dogs (terrorist organisations) and let them loose in the neighbourhood (Mid East and Asia), you will be a fool to expect it to stay there once it realises there is food elsewhere too (money and power) and once the rest of the neighbourhood starts to weed the problem out.
Every country should take care of its own terrorists. It’s far bigger than them and us now.

On what grounds do people think we should be able to play this ‘heritage’ card? It’s a bullshit concept.

What if every country decided they could send criminals packing back to their place of ‘heritage’?

It would be total bedlam (and the U.K. would be a net loser, given how many countries they’ve colonised along the way).

Couldn't she apply to live in the Netherlands where her husband is from? I think he is back there himself, but I've never seen this option mentioned is discounted.

I doubt their marriage was even legal, or registered anywhere so she hasn't a leg to stand on as far as Dutch law is concerned or a claim to citizenship.

I seem to have read that he was in jail/dead. His family have disowned him in any case.