AIBU to tell every mother on mumsnet...

[LastRoloIsMine]

We nearly lost the word mother and all that comes with it?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4176497-History-in-the-making-Watch-Parliament-Live-at-2-30pm

The maternity bill wanted to remove the word mother/woman and replace it with pregnant person.
Those words are important and women have fought for a century to be recognised yet we were nearly wiped out in favour of belief not fact.

I wont say "I am not transphobic" like some sort of plea! I dont actually have to I am just fighting for womens rights no need for me to explain myself any further.

I started this thread simply because I wanted to know if IWBU

In that case no, you are not BU. You are free to start threads telling every mother on mumsnet whatever you want, really.

Since when did discussing maternity rights on MUMSNET become deletion worthy?

Absolutely. If not on this site, where on earth are women allowed to discuss the removal of their rights?

These issues will likely affect every woman and girl at some point. Whether that's girls questioning whether they can change sex, or being told to share facilities with male teenagers, or healthcare campaigns calling for 'people with cervixes', or gym changing rooms including anyone who says they are a woman, or women's sport, or requesting a female HCP.

The removal of the words 'female' and 'woman' and 'mother' from public conversation, policy and law is chipping away at the rights woemn have only very recently won. I won't stand by while that happens.

The original wording was all about attempting to separate the absolutely most definitive thing about being a woman from womanhood/female from being of the female sex, so that men who want to be women can entirely take over the definition of what counts as a woman; and to a lesser extent, women who think they want to be men can keep pretending to themselves this is what they want when they patently do not, because they have kept their womb and stopped stuffing their bodies with testosterone in order to do something they can only do as a woman.

@Erkrie

I should probably turn that around to say making everything to do with women about transpeople. It isn't. Women have their own needs and rights which need to be made clear in law. And they have been.

Yes, agree.

Great points YouSetTheTone :

These aren’t your rights, your words, to give away. Giving away sex based rights and allowing ‘women’ to be erased in law affects vulnerable women, women with mental health problems, women who are discriminated against, women who want medical care for reasons based on their biological sex. The list goes on.
Thank you to the men and women in the House of Lords who stood up and defended women yesterday. I am truly grateful

@Erkrie

If 1900 people are interested then maybe its time this sort of thread came out of the shadows.

It's absolutely time.

Yep. Well past time

@Walkaround

The original wording was all about attempting to separate the absolutely most definitive thing about being a woman from womanhood/female from being of the female sex, so that men who want to be women can entirely take over the definition of what counts as a woman; and to a lesser extent, women who think they want to be men can keep pretending to themselves this is what they want when they patently do not, because they have kept their womb and stopped stuffing their bodies with testosterone in order to do something they can only do as a woman.

This ^^

and this....

If 1900 people are interested then maybe its time this sort of thread came out of the shadows.

We live in a democratic country (although recently it has been feeling less so). We must be able to speak openly about issues that affect us and laws that are being made.

We must be able to communicate those issues to the women that we know are materially affected but not aware because of the concerted effort and clear strategy to keep the attempted changes to the law under the radar.

Why is it so imperative to some people to prevent us from talking about this??

@LastRoloIsMine

This thread is nearing its end and frankly I am surprised it survived past page 4.

I started this thread simply because I wanted to know if IWBU. I mean that is the topic after all.

It was quickly deemed a hate thread, a pointless thread and I bet there were so many reports to have it removed.
Some posters tried to make this about something it wasn't. Since when did discussing maternity rights on MUMSNET become deletion worthy?

Over 1900 member looked and voted on this thread. I know that's not huge given the membership size but it does make me think that being confined to the FWR boards is an act of out of sight out of mind. If 1900 people are interested then maybe its time this sort of thread came out of the shadows.

I agree. And your management of what is a rather tricky thread, is masterful (mistressful?).

@Walkaround

The original wording was all about attempting to separate the absolutely most definitive thing about being a woman from womanhood/female from being of the female sex, so that men who want to be women can entirely take over the definition of what counts as a woman; and to a lesser extent, women who think they want to be men can keep pretending to themselves this is what they want when they patently do not, because they have kept their womb and stopped stuffing their bodies with testosterone in order to do something they can only do as a woman.

This ^^.

And once you get it, and see it as it applies to every instance where the word woman is being uncoupled from her biology, it becomes crystal clear.

As does the heart thumping realisation, that the converse, in terms of men, is simply not happening.

And your management of what is a rather tricky thread, is masterful (mistressful?).

Lucky is what I will say.
I stepped away more than once as the linguistic gymnastics some posters did was frustrating to say the least.

I dont doubt this thread will fall in to oblivion and be deleted in 90 days however I really do hope more members of mumsnet may read similar threads and take an interest post on them and look in to the topic with more detail.

Maybe it could be saved in Classics. Really glad it is here. Women are waking up to how our rights re being removed as can be seen from the percentages of this and other threads. Well done OP. Maybe some here could learn lots from the brilliant posters on feminism chat too.

Some of the whataboutery and gaslighting on these threads reminds me of this:

@Walkaround

The original wording was all about attempting to separate the absolutely most definitive thing about being a woman from womanhood/female from being of the female sex, so that men who want to be women can entirely take over the definition of what counts as a woman; and to a lesser extent, women who think they want to be men can keep pretending to themselves this is what they want when they patently do not, because they have kept their womb and stopped stuffing their bodies with testosterone in order to do something they can only do as a woman.

This this this!

Erkrie.

You were very clear on your op

You remained clear and strong

Despite the pigeon chess

💪💪💪💪💪💪👏👏👏👏

The other thing I find strange is how people can seemingly quite easily make the stretch to imagining a trans person who feels uncomfortable or ‘triggered’ by use of language or rights based on the female sex but seemingly don’t seem to find it easy to imagine the kind of women who might not be on Mumsnet with a glass of wine debating this.
The women desperately fleeing domestic abuse with kids and a few belongings.
The women with no extra disposable income who aren’t spending that money on WiFi.
The women whose mental health is suffering - perhaps post natal depression, perhaps stress from lockdown and home schooling and working, who might be retreating inwards.
Women who don’t have English as a first language in this country.
Women who are old and frail and reliant on others for their personal care (and probably don’t use the internet).
Women with strong religious beliefs who don’t want their workplaces or public single sex spaces compromised.
Young girls who are vulnerable to social trends and/ or abuse who deserve protections.

Not all of these women are disengaged from Mumsnet and this debate, but some of them will be. Who is looking after them? Who is making sure that their privacy, their rights in law, their support networks stay ringfenced?

Only women have periods
Only women get pregnant
Only women give birth
Only women breastfeed (no, it's not chest feed)

This has been the most interesting thread I’ve seen in AIBU in a long time!
Not only does the Emperor have no clothes on, but any one who cares to look can see that they are stark bollocking naked, but if we say that out loud in public we are told we are not “being kind”, or worse risk being sacked!

Women, as a sex, need to be seen as a separate group such and their differences understood and needs recognized.

I posted at start of the thread as I was really thrilled with the outcome and HoL decision. I've spent some hours reading the thread and I'm aghast at the abject nonsense being spouted from some. The patience and tolerance that you're demonstrating is a massive tribute; I could feel my blood pressure rising but, there you all were, batting it back with innate common sense and logic. And there it is.

This decision will hopefully be the start of the fall of the 'house of nonsense', brick by brick...

omg, I've not really been on this thread but I've just read the dictionary bit

It was a great decision and so good to see this topic being aired more broadly.

What I find crackers is the fact I have diseased tissue growing all over my pelvic organs due to having ovaries and yet can't get a referral to any specialist, yet if I went back to the Drs and requested they pop a penis on me instead I'd suddenly be taken seriously.

YouSetTheTone

What a wonderful post. Summed the thread up well. Thank you..

Funneth

I am so sorry you have and are suffering. Female healthcare is as we know 20 years behind where it should be. I wish it wasn't.

@Dalyesque

Maybe it could be saved in Classics. Really glad it is here. Women are waking up to how our rights re being removed as can be seen from the percentages of this and other threads. Well done OP. Maybe some here could learn lots from the brilliant posters on feminism chat too.

I second that - it covers a lot of the major issues and it feels like another step forward has been made in raising the alarm to this unbelievable, unprecedented situation where not only are women’s rights being rolled back significantly but safeguarding in these matters has gone out of the window.

There have been a few threads recently on both AIBU and Feminist Chat that have gained significant attention, both here and on Twitter. IME, once you have seen what is going on, you can’t look away. We need to alert as many people as possible to the stealth action that is undermining our rights and safeguards.

This has been a long term project on the part of the activists and they have nearly achieved their goal.

We need to push back hard and force Stonewalled employers and government to revise their policies to ensure ALL protected characteristics are considered equally.

The other thing I find strange is how people can seemingly quite easily make the stretch to imagining a trans person who feels uncomfortable or ‘triggered’ by use of language or rights based on the female sex

Funny how these trans people are so triggered by the use of language yet remain completely at ease using their female bodies to gestate a child, something only a female body can do, a unique female experience. However, I suspect those on here wanting to change the language from a Maternity Rights Bill to gender neutral language are using those very few and rare trans men who become mothers as a smoke screen to cover those who are really offended and are determined to cut females out of everything related to females and womanhood.