AIBU to tell every mother on mumsnet...

[LastRoloIsMine]

We nearly lost the word mother and all that comes with it?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4176497-History-in-the-making-Watch-Parliament-Live-at-2-30pm

The maternity bill wanted to remove the word mother/woman and replace it with pregnant person.
Those words are important and women have fought for a century to be recognised yet we were nearly wiped out in favour of belief not fact.

I wont say "I am not transphobic" like some sort of plea! I dont actually have to I am just fighting for womens rights no need for me to explain myself any further.

Cailleachian

What is it you are trying to achieve?

What risible bollocks are you spouting Cailleachian?

Who is being defined out of existence? How many 11 year old girls are also Ministers of the State and pregnant and require maternity leave?

The definitions are simple and straightforward and have been since time immemorial:

Maternity refers to Mothers
Only females can become Mothers
An adult human female is a woman
A juvenile human female is a girl

I think it is great that mother has been put back in. Mothers give birth, they are biological women with xx chromosomes. Some breast - not chest - feed.

@Nickanimk

Yes, all pregnant humans are female that isnt in dispute.
The question is are all pregnant humans women?

What the fuck doess a raped 11 year old have to do with maternity rights for women. What the hell?

In that very specific circumstance that child would get all the support and help she needed, if she was in the uk. Unfortunately not so much in other areas of the world. This is sex. This is abuse. This is oppression.

You cannot identify out of it. It's not gender, it's sex and it's irrelevant to the current discussion about the maternity rights legislation in the uk. It's just derailing nonsense.

Yes, all pregnant humans are female that isnt in dispute.
The question is are all pregnant humanswomen?

628,000 ever year are women compared with the 12,000 that are girls. So the default of only women get get pregnant is used. Again whats your point?
The bill states expectant mothers and mothers. Those under 18 are covered.

Just popped in to see how the debate was going.

Back to my current rabbit hole of researching the history of witches and by some weird trail of breadcrumbs, Taoism.

Both things resonate here.

I'll just Om off while cackling a bit then.

The question is are all pregnant humans women

They are all female
They are generally women and occasionally girls.
They are mothers.

Now let's move on to sealions....

@Cailleachian

To summarise the thread:

Only those of the female sex of humans can fall pregnant.

Sex and gender are separated matters.

Gender and it's ideology shouldn't, and in this case does not, have a right to encroach on sex based rights.

Biological functions of females fall under sex based rights not gender. This is reflected in legislation.

It does not eradicate a person from still using their chosen gender, it reflects the facts and truth of sex in law. It protects girls, women and females (of any chosen gender) whilst they are pregnant and after they become mothers. It doesn't exclude anyone.

Anything you're still unclear about?

If you want to be silly Cailleachian, carry on.

Let me spell it out for you:

A pregnant 11 year old juvenile female will be a pregnant girl and will require maternity services from the State as said 11 year old girl will be a mother.

The only sex that has the ability to gestate is the female sex, the only sex that can become mothers is the female sex, juvenile females are girls, adult females are women.

@LastRoloIsMine

Cailleachian

What is it you are trying to achieve?

To point out that pregnant people is an inclusive term which covers all people who are pregnant while "pregnant woman" is a specific term which covers a subset of pregnant people, even if you adhere to the cis-centric notion that woman=adult human female.

[quote Cailleachian]@Nickanimk

Yes, all pregnant humans are female that isnt in dispute.
The question is are all pregnant humans women?[/quote]
They are all female, @Cailleachian. You can word play all you want, but the only people every to have given birth are female. Mostly women, but unfortunately a few girls as well due the vile nature of this world that people chose to ignore for other causes.

@Cailleachian

'People is an inclusive term' says the one using the offe site 'cis' term .

To point out that pregnant people is an inclusive term which covers all people who are pregnant while "pregnant woman" is a specific term which covers a subset of pregnant people, even if you adhere to the cis-centric notion that woman=adult human female

You don't need to worry. They're all covered, under the term mother.

If @Cailleachian is trying to defend the rights of girls, it is going about it the wrong way to suggest they should be referred to as “people.” Only human FEMALES can get pregnant. The important fact here is their SEX. Legislation relating to pregnancy has no business whatsoever attempting to be asexual.

Yes, I totally agree - all female, every last one of them

Its a necessary condition of gestation.

But I dont think that all female people are women, (nor even that all adult female people are women...but that is a much larger issue).

To point out that pregnant people is an inclusive term which covers all people who are pregnant while "pregnant woman" is a specific term which covers a subset of pregnant people, even if you adhere to the cis-centric notion that woman=adult human female.

More ludicrous nonsense, cis-centric notion, what a load of crap.

A woman IS an adult human female, an adult human female IS a woman, that's reality.

Gonna go down a storm in the abortion clinic when you refer to your clients as "expectant mothers"

To point out that pregnant people is an inclusive term which covers all people who are pregnant while "pregnant woman" is a specific term which covers a subset of pregnant people, even if you adhere to the cis-centric notion that woman=adult human female.

The bill states expectant mothers and mothers. That includes everyone who can get pregnant. Those terms are inclusive nobody is left out.

Everyday language is women get pregnant because 638,000 births every year are womens births not girls.

cis-centric

Not even a word.

Women are adult human females. Its in the bloody dictionary!

The entire minority groups of transmen and intersex are excluded by use of word “mother or expectant mother

Apart from the fact that ‘intersex’ people are either male or female with differences in sexual development, from the reaction of the trans activists, this is not about inclusion for transmen.

In fact a huge trans ally, Lord Cashman didn’t even mention transmen (or non binary people) in his outraged reaction to the debate.

The intention of this is to decouple the word woman from our female biology and specific health issues.

That makes it easier for people who were not born female to redefine and lay a claim to ‘womanhood’. If the word doesn’t refer to our specific biology it is all up for grabs and we’ve lost.

@Cailleachian

Gonna go down a storm in the abortion clinic when you refer to your clients as "expectant mothers"

What sex of humans will access abortion clinics?

Gonna go down a storm in the abortion clinic when you refer to your clients as "expectant mothers"

Thats fucking vile and I am reporting you.

How dare you use abortion to make your ridiculous and woman hating point.

@Cailleachian

Yes, I totally agree - all female, every last one of them

Its a necessary condition of gestation.

But I dont think that all female people are women, (nor even that all adult female people are women...but that is a much larger issue).

What you 'think' is irrelevant. It's opinion, a belief. It's not based in tangible fact and laws shouldn't be based on personal beliefs either. You agree that only females give birth and the law reflects that.

How the individual would like to to be referred to is a different matter, but 'mother' is the legal term of the female giving birth.

@Cailleachian

Gonna go down a storm in the abortion clinic when you refer to your clients as "expectant mothers"

Race to the bottom now, is it? Typical trans rights activist foot stomping. Point out how their wrong sonthey bring out the most crass argument possible.

The intention of this is to decouple the word woman from our female biology and specific health issues

Yes. But the attempt has failed. 🤷‍♀️