Drag is the Black & White minstrel-ism of today

[Taoneusa]

How long before the appropriation and exploitation is recognised more fully ?

B&W minstrels were cliched, cartoonish, and “for entertainment”, as well, weren’t they.

Bio queens are just as bad, they’re part of culture that ridicules and devalues female culture. It’s the same as “not like other girls”.

I’m pretty sure there are few (if any!) bio kings.

@BrumBoo

I'm not gonna reply anymore as I'm getting busy with DS so if you tag me again im sorry, but basically if you're a straight women, you're not the target audience, just switch the tv off or don't go the story-time session, that way it doesn't need to offend you until you spend your days sitting thinking about it 24/7. I'd be more concerned at what kids see on tiktok or the words used in songs in the charts, than a show on BBC Three with men wearing wigs and dancing to Kelly Clarkson

Ah another one runs away when asked a direct question. By the way, @StaciesSpace calling them 'men in lippy and wigs' is transphobic so I'd be careful with your language.

The black community were also told that the show 'wasn't for them' when they complained. That it was nothing to do with race and offence, it was just a bit of fun, and the people involved 'didn't see colour'. Not seeing any rebuttal here that's different from back then, it's just you're defending awful sexism from men who've moved on from being racist. Misogyny is a goldmine after all, there is never ever any consequences for it, women like yourself have been utterly brainwashed into thinking it's just fine to be treated like this.

Running away for looking after my son?

That's the most attention seeking and self validating thing I've ever heard. I actually can't believe it. Maybe get off this thread and stop complaining about things that have little affect on your life and involve yourself more with things that do.

It's not transphobic at all. Do you understand what transgender is?
Drag acts don't pretend to be women, they are MEN in DRAG. They don't claim to change gender, they just play a role. Like actors do in movies.

I'm not brainwashed unforunately sweetie, I just don't have a stick up my -

Blackface was solely about mocking black people and putting them down. That was the purpose and people didn't claim they didn't see colour. The entire thing with black face was that it was about colour.

Drag on the other hand is dressing up and showing your talents. The same as people did on The Masked Singer a few weeks ago.

I'm sorry you're offended because they dress up as women even though it isn't mockey - but move on and don't ever try and make someone feel bad for prioritsing family again. Hope you wouldn't let a wee boy dress as Elsa or ever take your kids to a pantomine as you'd be encouraging the narrative you're trying to get rid of.
Gender isn't real and being so offended you want an argument because of something society made up is coming off as silly now.

If you want to fight misogyny, go volunteer with a charity, don't call strangers brainwashed because they're able to enjoy a longstanding art from that happens to be predominate in the LGBT community.

People love to be offended and people love to be the victims of society, just as another poster said. The same as the 'in the hospital' FB posts. Sometimes, it's not worth the fight, and sometimes you have to admit you just hate to see gay people have a platform. Now like I said, I need to go and spend time with my accepting, loving DS, who loves dressing up in princess dresses and saying he's Cinderella :)

it is men undermining women though mockery - how is that ok?

That's the thing you see....I dont see it like that at all. Polar opposite to you.

To me it's not undermining me or any woman at all.

I understand you feel that way and obviously thats ok as your opinion is as valid as anyone's here.
There are things that may offend the hell out of me but you would be ok with.

I think hesring the terms such as Cunty, Fishy, Tuna and Hunty bandied around on Drag race highlight the level of "respect" for women. Or contemptuous remarks from drag performers about straight white women in clubs on hen do's. Women who are paying to watch the drag performers perform.
Drag isnt done with affection or warmth, it comes from a view of dimensional femininty that fashion cartoonish versions of women that an audience can deride and mock whilst it all being in the bounds of entertainment.

It's like a circus sideshow. I see no artistry just venom.

I saw an online new article (oh yes, ‘news’) about a rival to the drag show that’s all over the BBC called something like ‘Snatch Game (or Squad)’. It made me think of ‘The Inbetweeners’ and the characters’ revolting names for girls/women.

There is no attempt to disguise the contempt for women is there?

I’m pretty sure there are few (if any!) bio kings

Now come on...if you're not involved in a particular scene and dont see much of it...you cant assume it isnt there. I know many drag kings. Drag is getting more popular on the tv recently yes and it's all drag queens yiure seeing...but the actual local drag scenes..country to country,city to city is much bigger than you could imagine with much more than just a standard gay man in heels.

As I said I know several women who make a living from impersonating men.

@StaciesSpace oh dear, I think it’s you who doesn’t understand what transgender is defined as these days 🙊

Why will nobody straight up give their opinion on drag kings and bio queens? They dance around it or come back with james Corden.🤣
Should all women involved in drag be stopped just like the men or should the females be allowed to continue?

Yes they should. Sexism is just that, though it is far worse for women as we are oppressed by men. The same men who pretend drag is a celebration of women when we all knownits more crass and awful sexism, this time by a group of men who usually haven't been near a women since the one they fell out of. They have no respect for what it actually means to be a woman, and anyone who convinces themselves that they are doing it out of some deranged idea of liking/respecting women needs to have a serious word with themselves. The whole culture is poisonous and demeaning.

Now, @Notimeforaname will you answer my question about which stereotypes are OK and which aren't?

I love drag. If you don’t like it then don’t go to the shows.

The intentions behind blackface and the intentions behind drag are worlds apart, I don’t think it’s right to compare them at all.

I said bio kings, not drag kings. I mean men dressing up as men.

No comparison - the B & W minstrels were artists who could actually sing (and dance) not just strut around and tell off-colour jokes.

Eivor can you please tell me what was intended by the man who put on a dress, make up, pretended he was a women while dressed like that and called himself Anna Bortion?

What was his intention?

You seem to be struggling to follow the conversation, but then Ive noticed many drag fans seem to struggle with anything more complex than fish jokes

I'm following just fine I've noticed many non drag fans seem unable to accept other opinions if even if they dont agree and seem quite angry towards other women for not holding the same views. But that's ok,theres all sorts on here isnt there!

I don't like it

I love drag and ru Paul's drag race. It brings a such joy, I do also class myself as a feminist.

It's rare I disagree in this section, but each to his own

Sorry BrumBoo! Just going back to have a look at your post again before I answer,I'm doing 6 things at once!

PheasantPlucker well I hadn't had an answer up until that point when I asked. Now I have. I'm reading through them

@PheasantPlucker1

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I answered every question. And even if I have missed something, it's a freaking forumn for god-sake not a Q&A. I can type long messages as I have two masters degrees and I am a fast typer. Sorry you can't keep up and sorry you care so much about this.

How about you don't laugh at me and instead do something meaningful with your life? Stop quoting and tagging me and accept you have an out-dated opinion and that's that.

I'm not responding direct but the person being transphobic, please grow up and don't make jokes about stuff like that over the internet. Nearly half of transgender people attempt suicide. It's not funny. It's the same as 'oh I identify as a truck now' or thinking gay people do drag to be allowed in the womens toilet to assault people. It's narrow-minded and boring.

I might not reply but I'm noticing no one has responded to me about whether or not they'd take their kid to a pantomine?
Do you also let your kids watch Disney movies? Most of which revovle around a women who's sole purpose is to marry a man and 'live happily ever after?' Some serious undertones there. At least with drag adults chose to watch, parents force-feed their kids Disney by the bucketload.

@StaciesSpace

That's the most attention seeking and self validating thing I've ever heard. I actually can't believe it. Maybe get off this thread and stop complaining about things that have little affect on your life and involve yourself more with things that do.

Ah here's comes the melodrama. You haven't been on the internet long if that's how you feel about my post. Regardless, I'm a woman. Misogyny has everything to 'do with my life'.

It's not transphobic at all. Do you understand what transgender is?

I do. You evidently don't.

Drag acts don't pretend to be women, they are MEN in DRAG. They don't claim to change gender, they just play a role. Like actors do in movies.

They use female pronouns, and it is transphobic not to accept drag queens as a female side of that's man's personality. Again, perhaps brush up on what trans is dear. Everything comes back to gender ID. Why do they need to be women to play this role? What makes them 'women' when they put on makeup and wear their ridiculous outfits? If what they do is no big deal, why not say they're men when playing this role?

I'm not brainwashed unforunately sweetie, I just don't have a stick up my

Sure thing.

Blackface was solely about mocking black people and putting them down. That was the purpose and people didn't claim they didn't see colour. The entire thing with black face was that it was about colour.
Drag on the other hand is dressing up and showing your talents. The same as people did on The Mask

Really, for someone who hasn't got their head up their - the fact you cannot see the correlation between the B and W Minstrels and Drag suggests otherwise. The fact you regress it further for being 'like the Masked Singer' is utterly laughable. Last time I checked, people appropriate other singers though nasty stereotypes wasn't the name of the game.

@PheasantPlucker1

Eivor can you please tell me what was intended by the man who put on a dress, make up, pretended he was a women while dressed like that and called himself Anna Bortion?

What was his intention?

No offence but I just realised your username, PheasantPlucker, would make a great drag name. You should consider a new career path.

I think Anna Bortion is a hilarious play on words, and idk if you know this but a drag queens name has nothing to do with their performance, it's just an attention grabber.