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Original poster

Drag is the Black & White minstrel-ism of today

651 replies

Taoneusa · 25/02/2021 15:28

How long before the appropriation and exploitation is recognised more fully ?

B&W minstrels were cliched, cartoonish, and “for entertainment”, as well, weren’t they.

OP posts:
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15
FTMF30 · 25/02/2021 16:50

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I completely agree. One is a playing on an outrageous, outdated stereotype of a marginalised group, and the other is blackface.

It's shocking that it seems to be more popular now - or at least, more prevalent. The BBC seems to be particularly obsessed with it (Drag Race, Mrs Brown)... I guess it ticks a few diversity boxes.

Why minimise one thing in order to highlight how problematic something else is?
StaciesSpace · 25/02/2021 16:50

@bellropes

Drag is horrible.

Women are mocked enough in society without offensive drag shows. Imagine if we dressed up as men and took the piss out of penis size and the way they walk and talk and the ridiculous way they carry on sometimes and how they send their pathetic dick pics - plucked chicken anyone?

Yeah, drag is offensive.

Drag Kings exist, this is what they do.

Also have you ever watched female comedians? They cater for this almost exlcusively sometimes but we wouldn't take their platform away.

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 16:51

What about women who bind their breasts,draw on fake beards and wear short wigs... to perform a song and pretend to be a man? Is that ok or are those women reducing men?

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 16:52

Also have you ever watched female comedians? They cater for this almost exlcusively sometimes but we wouldn't take their platform away
Very fair point.

LowContacter · 25/02/2021 16:52

I don't necessarily think of it as a mockery, it's just comedic impersonation

Oh, that's alright then. Next time I make a joke at someone's expense I will just say it is comedic impersonation.

I hate drag. I am actually quite hard to upset, but I find drag really offensive.

MissPessyMistic · 25/02/2021 16:53

@gummygator You and me both. Hubby and I are massive fans of Drag Race.

Glad I stuck my head in this thread now, it’s given me a giggle. Grin

BrumBoo · 25/02/2021 16:53

I'm not gonna reply anymore as I'm getting busy with DS so if you tag me again im sorry, but basically if you're a straight women, you're not the target audience, just switch the tv off or don't go the story-time session, that way it doesn't need to offend you until you spend your days sitting thinking about it 24/7. I'd be more concerned at what kids see on tiktok or the words used in songs in the charts, than a show on BBC Three with men wearing wigs and dancing to Kelly Clarkson

Ah another one runs away when asked a direct question. By the way, @StaciesSpace calling them 'men in lippy and wigs' is transphobic so I'd be careful with your language.

The black community were also told that the show 'wasn't for them' when they complained. That it was nothing to do with race and offence, it was just a bit of fun, and the people involved 'didn't see colour'. Not seeing any rebuttal here that's different from back then, it's just you're defending awful sexism from men who've moved on from being racist. Misogyny is a goldmine after all, there is never ever any consequences for it, women like yourself have been utterly brainwashed into thinking it's just fine to be treated like this.

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 16:54

Imagine if we dressed up as men and took the piss out of penis size and the way they walk and talk and the ridiculous way they carry on sometimes and how they send their pathetic dick pics
I know several women who do this. And get paid to.

BiscuitSewingTin · 25/02/2021 16:54

Drag queens have to dress up as women because otherwise it would just be gay men playing as gay stereotypes which isn’t woke. Misogyny is woke though so that’s ok.

Jurassicperk · 25/02/2021 16:54

@StaciesSpace

Telling men they can't have a bit of makeup and be more feminine makes me as uncomfortable as people telling little boys that crying is weak does.

Straw man. No one is saying men can't wear make up and be 'feminine'. The problem is when men thinks that gives them the slightest experience of what it means to be a woman, or the right to exploit it for cheap, vulgar laughs.

I think you'll also find plenty of women here engaged in the resistance against toxic masculinity. No one is advocating we ostracise men for dressing how they want, that includes the use of makeup etc. but I draw the line at using that to take the piss out of women.

While you crack on participating in your own oppression, don't judge the rest of us for refusing to lie down and take the hit.

StoneofDestiny · 25/02/2021 16:54

White People dressing up as Black People = Black and White Minstrels
Men dressing up as Women = Drag

Yes, both just as crass and ignorant

BiscuitSewingTin · 25/02/2021 16:55

In fact, not just gay men, I’m sure there are straight male drag queens which would be even worse playing gay stereotypes.

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 16:56

Oh, that's alright then. Next time I make a joke at someone's expense I will just say it is comedic impersonation.
So whats the alternative...no more jokes made ever? Do we lose the comedians as well as the drag artist?

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 16:57

Is it ok for drag kings to perform? Should the ladies I know who make a living from it lose their jobs because they are offensive and outdated ?or is it only drag Queens you want rid of?

Flapjak · 25/02/2021 16:58

"They don't see women as inferior, they don't think women are stupid, they don't want to take our rights away. No one treats women different because a man on TV put on lippy."

Really?? Do you read or listen to any international news?? Would the world be a worse place if drag didnt exist, no it wouldnt. I think drag gives gay men a platform and legitimises their misogyny. It is different but also not different to blackface and should not be on mainstream tv as a form kf entertainment. Its not funny, and really what is so clever about plastering on a load of ugly makeup

BrumBoo · 25/02/2021 16:59

@Notimeforaname

What about women who bind their breasts,draw on fake beards and wear short wigs... to perform a song and pretend to be a man? Is that ok or are those women reducing men?
@Notimeforaname, do you think some kind of stereotypes are OK then? When James Corden played a gay man recently and was lambasted for being a straight man 'playing up the gay', was that OK for example? Where is the line where acting out stereotypes is ok?
WowStarsWow · 25/02/2021 16:59

How do people not realise that women dressing up as men is not equivalent to men dressing up as women? Are they not aware of women’s history as an oppressed class? Would they ask if it is offensive for black people to dress up as white people? 🙄

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 25/02/2021 16:59

YANBU. I loathe drag and always have.

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 17:02

How do people not realise that women dressing up as men is not equivalent to men dressing up as women?

Drag king and bio queen - No problem let them work/perform

Drag queen - Stop them all now

Is this the general consensus?

BrumBoo · 25/02/2021 17:02

@Notimeforaname

Is it ok for drag kings to perform? Should the ladies I know who make a living from it lose their jobs because they are offensive and outdated ?or is it only drag Queens you want rid of?
If it gets rid of drag queens I'd happily see the end of drag Kings. The former is far more regressive and offensive due to the privilege of men and the lack of so for women. It is men undermining women though mockery - how is that ok? And they appropriate the workd 'woman' to do so. If it was men standing up without the makeup, wigs, etc being men saying these jokes, it would never be acceptable. Or it may be, society has really sunk low in what sexism is acceptable these days.
BoyTree · 25/02/2021 17:03

We're in the middle of a pandemic and gay men are still being killed in other countries for being seen as feminine, drag isn't the problem right now.

Women are killed for being women all over the world, every day.

iceicesunsun · 25/02/2021 17:05

I actually complained to the BBC about Ru Paul’s Drag Race and the coverage on the BBC website- I got the wet reply from them you’d expect.

I have never watched it and never will. What is so terrible about it?
What did the BBC say?

WowStarsWow · 25/02/2021 17:06

@Notimeforaname

How do people not realise that women dressing up as men is not equivalent to men dressing up as women?

Drag king and bio queen - No problem let them work/perform

Drag queen - Stop them all now

Is this the general consensus?

I am not saying they are acceptable, I am saying they are irrelevant and shouldn’t be used as a “gotcha” (but it happens the other way round too so it makes it ok!)

Would it make it ok for white people to wear black face, if some black people also did white face? Or black people made themselves more black? Umm of course not.

Notimeforaname · 25/02/2021 17:06

@Notimeforaname, do you think some kind of stereotypes are OK then? When James Corden played a gay man recently and was lambasted for being a straight man 'playing up the gay', was that OK for example? Where is the line where acting out stereotypes is ok?

Why will nobody straight up give their opinion on drag kings and bio queens? They dance around it or come back with james Corden.🤣
Should all women involved in drag be stopped just like the men or should the females be allowed to continue?

BrumBoo · 25/02/2021 17:06

Women are killed for being women all over the world, every day

More to the point, women are murdered by men who think they are something lesser. Drag encourages the idea that women are something lesser to be mocked and appropriated. That's why they do it under the term queen rather than as men who enjoy makeup and dresses. If they were genuinely doing it out of the love of 'being fabulous' they'd have no need to pretend to be women to do so.