Drag is the Black & White minstrel-ism of today

[Taoneusa]

How long before the appropriation and exploitation is recognised more fully ?

B&W minstrels were cliched, cartoonish, and “for entertainment”, as well, weren’t they.

@Mockolate

The point seems to have have sashayed its way right over your little head

oooof
burn
WTF lol
Having to resort to patronising?
If so fair enough, shall we all?
UK hun?

Uk hun!!

Because you have to see that performance to know!!
Season 6 definitely the best one to start with for the camera quailty and then there's all stars too.

One of my main loves about drag race is although it has moments where they explain how bad its been with discrimination etc it's mostly upbeat and I think with the way of the world and that most TV series have a underlining thread of painful topics, this doesn't.
Its my happy place when my heads spinning as i know its not going to make me spin more.

It doesnt really sum it up gummygator no.

But what I find really interesting is how many people are offended by drag being compared to minstrels (white men being black men)

Yet none seem to be offended by the fact there was a white man pretending to be a black woman on our tvs in 2010.

@JorjaSays

I've not really seen enough drag to have formed an opinion yet, but what really does piss me off is white women co-opting the struggles faces by POC as some kind of bargaining chip in their own first world problems - especially middle class, western, white women. Because let's face it, seeing drag queens on tv is nothing compared to the horrors that black people have faced. And white women are almost the most privileged group in existence, second only to white men, and they benefit from the power held by their husbands/fathers in a way that somebody married/born to a black man can't.

Feminists moan when TRAs draw false equivalence to the struggles of POC and try to compare transwomen/black women but this honestlyisn't much better. Especially coming from members of the same group that created blackface and perpetrated many of the atrocities against black people.

There was an almost identical thread a few months back where posters pointed out that it was unreasonable to draw POC into the argument as some kind of gotcha and several black posters agreed, yet here we are again.

Fight your own battles and leave us out of it.

Great post, and articulated why I feel uncomfortable comparing the two. Just you say it so much better, as it comes from someone who isn't white.

Uk hun!!
Because you have to see that performance to know!!

Couldn't resist lol

*One of my main loves about drag race is although it has moments where they explain how bad its been with discrimination etc it's mostly upbeat and I think with the way of the world and that most TV series have a underlining thread of painful topics, this doesn't.

Its my happy place when my heads spinning as i know its not going to make me spin more

I hear that, it's mine too, poured a glass of wine soon as I realised it's Thursday, nearly Drag Race and headphones in, time to get watching lol
Kids (teenagers before anyone disapproves) laugh at me if they catch me miming along to the lip sync battle at the end

You're right in it's just so upbeat, place people can just enjoy themselves

Yet none seem to be offended by the fact there was a white man pretending to be a black woman on our tvs in 2010.

But it's not the case anymore?
It's been pulled, rightly.

@PheasantPlucker1

So should the black and white minstrels be brought back for people who love it, and the offended ones should just not watch, like a pp suggested?

Or would it still be offensive, regardless of those who quite like it?

I'm begging you to get a little perspective. Being black and being a woman are not the same and racist caricatures are definitely worse than doing comedy in a dress. If a drag queen makes a comment you find offensive, don't watch them. If you don't enjoy drag as a whole, don't watch it. But it is not inherently misogynistic and DEFINITELY not on the same level as minstrels.

Of couse it wasnt pulled.

It only mocked black women so no need to cancel it when people like you enjoy it so much.

They just decided not to make another series.

But dont worry, there are still drag queens that black up for your entertainment.

Of couse it wasnt pulled.

It's not on the telly any more, hasn't been for years.
Was also in the news recently where it's been taken from streaming services. think it was Netflix? Or something like Netflix, sorry, can't remember which one)
Cue much outrage on the Daily Mail comments page.

It only mocked black women so no need to cancel it when people like you enjoy it so much
Whaaa lol,, for what it's worth I've never enjoyed Little Britain, think it's the most unfunniest bag of shite ever.
Don't think I've ever sat through a full episode of it.
Why would I enjoy a programme mocking black women?
Bizarre comment

Syntax being black and being a woman are often the same. Many people are both.

Sexism is also a thing, and its a thing that has led and will continue to lead to the deaths of thousands.

Sexist charicatures are not ok.

Mockolate I have no idea why you enjoy these programmes.

It infuriates many women I know, white and black.

Being black and being a woman are not the same

Completely agree (I'm not black, am white so am sorry if comes across wrong)
Being a woman is being just that.
A woman.
Whether black or white.

and racist caricatures are definitely worse than doing comedy in a dress.
exactly

@JorjaSays

I'm a bit disappointed my first post on here was such an angry rant after reading silently for so long. 😳 But comparing things to racism seems to be such a common tactic nowadays and they're almost always issues that pale in comparison to the things that happened in colonial times. The other common and similar argument is the one sexist men use against feminists which is 'replace "men" with "black people" and see how bad it sounds', which is pretty much identical to 'replace "drag" with "black people"'. I read a whole article on that exact subject a few years ago and despite recognising that men suffer from toxic masculinity (don't really like the term though) I did feel like telling the moaning guy to man up. It was loads of examples of articles which would be offensive if "black people" was substituted.

I don't like whataboutery as it becomes a race to the bottom where nobody has the right to complain unless they're a homeless, black, disabled, gay person, etc, but for some reason it angers me to see constant comparisons to racism.

Good post, thought provoking

Jorja I actually agree that the comaprison isnt helpful, as it leads into a debate about sexism vs racism, which is pointless and not the battle anyone needs.

However the comparison comes from the idea of men wearing a disguise in order to emulate and mock a lesser class.

There was a minstrels show on BBC until 1978. People used the exact same excuses to watch it, as have been given on this thread to watch drag race.

They were talented. It was art, expression, it made peoole laugh. Even read the excuse that it glorified black people all the eye rolls

Thats where I do see comparisons.

Jarnsaxa
Of course you are being unreasonable
The black and white minstrels were offensive to black MEN

White MEN being offensive to Black MEN who suffered racism, exclusion, segregation, mass-incarceration, denial of civil rights, denial of education and employment opportunity, being killed for looking at a White woman, being killed for being black, in the wrong place, running too fast, walking too slow - and so on.

Are Drag Queens inflicting this on those of you who can't make a point about them, without being racist via casual dismissal and bandwaggoning of racism?🙄

Only I haven't heard that they are

There was a minstrels show on BBC until 1978. People used the exact same excuses to watch it, as have been given on this thread to watch drag race.
That was over 40 years ago.
Not to mention people have said keep them out of it, white people likening themselves to black people's oppressions is just not the same.
At all.

JorjaSays
I've not really seen enough drag to have formed an opinion yet, but what really does piss me off is white women co-opting the struggles faces by POC as some kind of bargaining chip in their own first world problems - especially middle class, western, white women. Because let's face it, seeing drag queens on tv is nothing compared to the horrors that black people have faced. And white women are almost the most privileged group in existence, second only to white men, and they benefit from the power held by their husbands/fathers in a way that somebody married/born to a black man can't

Feminists moan when TRAs draw false equivalence to the struggles of POC and try to compare transwomen/black women but this honestly isn't much better. Especially coming from members of the same group that created blackface and perpetrated many of the atrocities against black people

There was an almost identical thread a few months back where posters pointed out that it was unreasonable to draw POC into the argument as some kind of gotcha and several black posters agreed, yet here we are again

Fight your own battles and leave us out of it

Well said

Thank you to @PheasantPlucker1 and @BrumBoo for articulating so well so many many points I would like to have made but am not able to.

Thank you @MammaSchwifty for possibly the best post I've read in the last 12 months

Mockolate are you speaking for all black people there?

Most my family arent white, so Im quite confident I know there are different opinions.

Also, I didnt compare the opression. I compared the actions of these men, which is identical. Just done to different groups.

If you can explain how the actions are different, Id love to hear it.

Mockolate I have no idea why you enjoy these programmes.

It infuriates many women I know, white and black

Novel concept, I know, but maybe we're all just different and not the same.
Whether man or woman

Mockolate are you speaking for all black people there?

Errr... no?
Not sure exactly where you get that from

So Mockolate I have asked a few times.
Do you think drag queens are talented enough to perform without impersonating women?

Could you watch RuPaul as a fabulous drag king, a man who was proud to be a man in a dress, rather than RuPaul impersonating a woman?