I really need help with my violent son. And I'm willing to pay for the help. But how?

[SortYourLifeHelp]

My son is nearly 10, middle child of three boys.

We have had trouble with his behaviour since he was about 3 years old. He has tics, allergies and ADHD (the later diagnosed privately) and they won't medicate the ADHD until older because he can take the standard meds due to his tics.

He had a 2.5 hour outbursts the other night because he went to bed at 8pm, but he wanted to go to bed at 8pm.
In other words, it's over absolutely nothing.
He was calling us fucking cunts. Punching us, throwing metal toys at our heads with all his strength. Saying he was going to smash up our phone, smashes the house up, he's a danger to himself, and the rest of us. The police didn't want to know.
He's run away in the past.

Things we have tried so far

• CAMHS, waiting waiting still waiting
• Private diagnoses of ADHD who recommended the triple P parenting programme, at a glance that didn't seem to be the answer though?
• spoken to the school, who have referred us to child services, for a key worker, still waiting.
• paid for a private therapist that does NVR non-violent restoration. I stopped that after I was paying £75 an hour for her to tell me the way we handle his meltdowns and simmer him down is to walk away. (Tried that!) and do "whatever we felt would work at the time" TRIED THAT. As if we want his violent meltdowns to continue into the night.

-grounding him makes him worse
-any kind of punishment causes hours long of violent meltdowns.

We are desperate.

We have some money left from our house sale, it's not going to last long so I want to pay someone to help us, but who?? How??

We are in Brighton if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Please help us.

That is very helpful and encouraging, Millpond, thank you!

Millpond,

Hi, I was wondering why it’s ADHD specifically that your family is going through/will go through the diagnostic process for?

Anne1958
When ds was little everyone said he had ADHD but I dismissed it as he was just like me when I was his age
My dd was the one who started to look into ADHD because a few people over time had asked if she had ADHD. She was the one who showed me the “symptoms”.
I have read a few articles on ADHD and watched a few YouTube videos and it is like the people were describing my whole life.

Maybe other things will be brought up but atm we are looking at ADHD for all of us.

My 10 year old has ASD and has meltdowns. He has recently begun to throw things during these meltdowns but without deliberately trying to cause damage.

I can see when he's about to have a meltdown. The only thing that works is to sit quietly with him until he has calmed down. No talking etc. It takes at least an hour.

I would trust your own instincts. Many of these so called experts don't understand the impact of a neuro diverse brain and try to treat them as NT. Then it doesn't work.

Do a diary to see if there are particular triggers.

Research Pathological Demand Avoidance. Do the signs ring a bell? If so, you have to treat the behaviour really differently to get anywhere.

Search for a local neurodiverse charity and ask the parents on their for tips. They will be able to give you proper advice for free!

talesfromourhouse.blogspot.com/2019/02/when-special-needs-parent-falls-into.html?m=1

Well it was all peace and harmony until God forbid, I told DS that he needs to walk home after school and not play out until I'm home tomorrow about 10 minutes later.

He's now calling us fucking bastards, that he's going out anyway, fuck us all, smashing the place up.

Fucking brilliant.

So while I'm at work tomorrow miles away, I'm going to have no bloody idea where my son is.

Op can you apply for DLA for your son?

Have you seen a sensory integration occupational therapist with ADHD experience?

They may be able to help you identify his triggers and give you a sensory diet to work with which may reduce outbursts. We reduced my son's a bit just by switching off a certain light in the house.

What are the allergies you're dealing with? I wonder if there may be unidentified ones.

I would also look into reducing or removing inflammatory foods such as gluten, dairy, sunflower oil, sugar. Take high quality fish oil. Look at gut healing if you haven't already.

Check out the PDA society, it's possible he has ADHD and PDA profile autism, and depending who diagnosed him it's possible they missed it?

How was his gestation / birth / infancy? Did he have colic? Did he like the pram or car?

Finally what 1-1 time does he get - must be hard with 3 boys.

@Frozenintime

Op can you apply for DLA for your son?

We have money, that's not helping. I genuinely don't see how DLA would help in the slightest at this point.

Is the not playing out a change in his usual routine?

@nanbread

Have you seen a sensory integration occupational therapist with ADHD experience?

They may be able to help you identify his triggers and give you a sensory diet to work with which may reduce outbursts. We reduced my son's a bit just by switching off a certain light in the house.

What are the allergies you're dealing with? I wonder if there may be unidentified ones.

I would also look into reducing or removing inflammatory foods such as gluten, dairy, sunflower oil, sugar. Take high quality fish oil. Look at gut healing if you haven't already.

Check out the PDA society, it's possible he has ADHD and PDA profile autism, and depending who diagnosed him it's possible they missed it?

How was his gestation / birth / infancy? Did he have colic? Did he like the pram or car?

Finally what 1-1 time does he get - must be hard with 3 boys.

We haven't seen anyone. Though I've made a thousand calls and emailed many organisations. I'm hitting brick walls everywhere I go, it's so bloody depressing.

What triggers his outburst was me telling him he needed to come straight into the house after school and not go out until I'm home.
That was the trigger. It's always about us saying something needs to happen and he simply doesn't want to. He'd have been absolutely fine tonight had in it said that.

He's been under St Thomas for his allergies and is under an already very restricted diet. I'm not taking anything else out.
Dairy, egg, banana, nuts, shell fish, soya, wheat.
As well as animals and environmental allergies
He's had countless allergy tests and continues to do so.
I'm not reducing his diet further.

I've looked into PDA and it's solution seems to be changing the wording from
"You need to..."
To
"Would you mind if..."
If I used that wording, he would tell me to fuck off.

"Would you be a good boy please and come home after school?"

Him- "Eeerrr no. Fuck off."

He was 2 weeks late, half strangled to death (cord 3 times round) needed resus and I know this might have a baring on his issues. It doesn't help though.
Bit of reflux and a fuck load of food he's anaphylactic to.

He gets 1:1 time every single evening, when we play rummikub or cards.

Apart from the nights he's making our lives Hemel and punching us in the face and calling us all cunts.

I fucking hate my life.

Sounds fucking hard. Can you get time to look after yourself / respite time?

It sounds like you've been trying to get help on the NHS. You need to go private IMO. Can you afford to?

You didn't mention if you'd looked into gut healing. Sounds like there's a big issue but you can work on it without taking further foods out. Not a quick fix though and takes up more head space.

The "solution" to PDA isn't that, but I understand why you're being dismissive. You're frustrated.

I wonder if there's also some developmental trauma left over from the birth. That would require a different set of tools to if it were PDA.

The tricky thing is that you need a clear understanding and diagnosis of what's happening right now so you know which route to take. You'll need to pay to get there any time soon.

Posted too soon. An organisation like BIBIC as someone referenced above or a SIOT should be able to help point you in the right direction so you know what you're dealing with.

www.adhdfoundation.org.uk/

Ds hates changes to routine particularly if they mean an enjoyable thing isn't happening.
So we have to do,
" x can't happen as usual. We need to find a solution. I'm concerned about y&z. What do you think the best thing to do is?"
I'm not saying it's perfect and when reminded of the agreement he has made he can still kick off.
But just telling him what would was a disaster as he moved into tweens.
If he has worked on a plan he likely to be calmer and follow through.

You can contact cs and request section 20, where you willingly place him in care as you are in family crisis and cannot care for him at present.
It's tough but necessary due to the violence

You've had some great advice here, I would just add to not necessarily dismiss the triple P programme if it's offered as it can be very helpful. Also incredible years as someone else mentioned.

I have a similar sounding 9yo, although not as violent, and one of the many issues I find is that he places me in the persecutor role, so even when I try to help he really can't listen to me :( (and I'm supposedly a professional in this field...)
We've had some benefit from play therapy and also I'm planning a sensory assessment as that's very much part of the picture for ds. Controlling my own reactions is a constant battle I'm ashamed to say. And his behaviour was sadly a major contributing factor to the breakdown of my marriage to autistic exh. I just couldn't take it any more. Do you ever get a break? A proper one?

Much sympathy to you. I lived through something very similar, but it’s now several years since there was any violence: I think my son simply grew out of it. Once thing I noticed as we were coming out the other side: he really needed verbal and physical affection. He didn’t always respond affectionately (I’d say, “I love you,” and he’d say, “Fuck off you fat cunt”) but it became clear to me that he needed to hear it. That definitely made things a bit easier, even if it sounds a bit strange. I think it made me realise how much my attempts to manage his behaviour made him feel bad about himself. Being constantly under attack does sometimes make it harder to be affectionate. Or maybe it’s just me.

@Stifledlife

I had similar problems with my son.. which all started when he was about 3.

He wanted me dead and used to lay traps for me. He used to throw furniture/toys/anything at visitors, and regularly tell me how much he hated me.

In our case it was the artificial colours and preservatives in his food. Through trial and error I worked out the trigger foods and he improved hugely, but 1 small packet of haribos (they've changed since) and it would take 36 hours of screaming, fighting and throwing the furniture for him to come down again. My nephew was the same but with natural colours (one orange or strawberry would set him off).

Finding out what caused it and getting it out of his system took a lot of reading and research, and he also was diagnosed with ADHD along the way. Once he was diagnosed all the specialist unit offered was "coping stategies" so I had no choice but to do something because I couldn't survive the way he was. There was no help forthcoming from the medical community, and they really weren't interested in doing anything other that medicating him.
All in all it took about 2 years for the devil's spawn to turn into a nice kid, who had friends and could go to school and come home without me dreading "could I have a word" from his teacher..

I don't know if you have been down the food route, and apologies if you have, but if he was fine until he was 3 it might be worth exploring.

I thought some stuff at 3 was normal? But then I had nothing to compare to, as not been around enough children of that age, and no other kids myself. But my DS's behaviour changed as he got closer to 3, tantrums which I thought is normal, and as I have read many posts online, hitting, trying to bite, if told off or doesn't like something you are telling him, he will throw things, he says he likes you/others then says he doesn't, says he likes his home then doesn't, so I didn't take it as over concerning in some ways, should I be? He will do stuff then come and hug my leg as he knows when he has done wrong.

@Redruby2020 yes that's fairly normal for 3, but not for 6/7+ when most NT children have learned to control impulses and self regulate somewhat.

It's also about frequency and duration, at the peak of my son's behaviour he was having maybe 4-5 big tantrums a day lasting 1-2 hours each.

I’ve followed this thread from day 1

If you were My friend I’d say
Pause the thread for now , some amazing advice here but you are clearly in a bad way and can’t absorb
That’s totally understandable
Look after yourself as a priority here
So pause the son stuff
Let him call you a cunt as much as he wants , I get this too
Daily !
My son is totally vile this week as he is scared abut school next week

I loved what an earlier poster said that you can’t treat kids with this issue with normal discipline

And try and get help for you
Start with GP , get yourself some help
Find a support group with real parents with same issues
Find a decent therapist you can vent to
Get some medication
Try and get you back in a better place

To say I hate my life indicates you are rock bottom

You can’t help him when you are in this state of mind , I’m more worried about you than I am about your swearing and violent son TBH

I'm so sorry it's truly terrible for you. I get it I really do. I have two Ds with asd and add, it can be horrendously hard, we see Dr Daphne Keen (privately) for support. Sometimes you just need people to acknowledge how hard it is for you. Many people don't have a clue. My son was diagnosed with add (on Elvanse) and asd at fifteen when the wheels fell off lockdown has sent him pretty crazy its often a war zone.

I did attend an online seminar about adhd, add and asd recently by an amazing child psychiatrist Dr Warikoo (his seminar was uploaded to you tube) It was very good he's big on the whole approach his knowledge of Adhd meds was impressive he's very senior in CAHMS but can be seen privately. He's based in Hampshire. I haven't used him but wouldn't hesitate. Best of luck.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

I’ve followed this thread from day 1

If you were My friend I’d say
Pause the thread for now , some amazing advice here but you are clearly in a bad way and can’t absorb
That’s totally understandable
Look after yourself as a priority here
So pause the son stuff
Let him call you a cunt as much as he wants , I get this too
Daily !
My son is totally vile this week as he is scared abut school next week

I loved what an earlier poster said that you can’t treat kids with this issue with normal discipline

And try and get help for you
Start with GP , get yourself some help
Find a support group with real parents with same issues
Find a decent therapist you can vent to
Get some medication
Try and get you back in a better place

To say I hate my life indicates you are rock bottom

You can’t help him when you are in this state of mind , I’m more worried about you than I am about your swearing and violent son TBH

This is great advice

[quote nanbread]@Redruby2020 yes that's fairly normal for 3, but not for 6/7+ when most NT children have learned to control impulses and self regulate somewhat.

It's also about frequency and duration, at the peak of my son's behaviour he was having maybe 4-5 big tantrums a day lasting 1-2 hours each.[/quote]
Thankyou for your reassurance.
My DS has his tantrums but they don't last that long, although it feels like it at the time!

@RiojaRose

Much sympathy to you. I lived through something very similar, but it’s now several years since there was any violence: I think my son simply grew out of it. Once thing I noticed as we were coming out the other side: he really needed verbal and physical affection. He didn’t always respond affectionately (I’d say, “I love you,” and he’d say, “Fuck off you fat cunt”) but it became clear to me that he needed to hear it. That definitely made things a bit easier, even if it sounds a bit strange. I think it made me realise how much my attempts to manage his behaviour made him feel bad about himself. Being constantly under attack does sometimes make it harder to be affectionate. Or maybe it’s just me.

Children need our love most when they least deserve it. So true (and so difficult to do!)