I really need help with my violent son. And I'm willing to pay for the help. But how?

[SortYourLifeHelp]

My son is nearly 10, middle child of three boys.

We have had trouble with his behaviour since he was about 3 years old. He has tics, allergies and ADHD (the later diagnosed privately) and they won't medicate the ADHD until older because he can take the standard meds due to his tics.

He had a 2.5 hour outbursts the other night because he went to bed at 8pm, but he wanted to go to bed at 8pm.
In other words, it's over absolutely nothing.
He was calling us fucking cunts. Punching us, throwing metal toys at our heads with all his strength. Saying he was going to smash up our phone, smashes the house up, he's a danger to himself, and the rest of us. The police didn't want to know.
He's run away in the past.

Things we have tried so far

• CAMHS, waiting waiting still waiting
• Private diagnoses of ADHD who recommended the triple P parenting programme, at a glance that didn't seem to be the answer though?
• spoken to the school, who have referred us to child services, for a key worker, still waiting.
• paid for a private therapist that does NVR non-violent restoration. I stopped that after I was paying £75 an hour for her to tell me the way we handle his meltdowns and simmer him down is to walk away. (Tried that!) and do "whatever we felt would work at the time" TRIED THAT. As if we want his violent meltdowns to continue into the night.

-grounding him makes him worse
-any kind of punishment causes hours long of violent meltdowns.

We are desperate.

We have some money left from our house sale, it's not going to last long so I want to pay someone to help us, but who?? How??

We are in Brighton if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Please help us.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Oh no you have me wrong. We really want meds. We were gutted when they said they wouldn't, we felt like that was our last chance taken from us

Ah I see . Then I’d push harder
Please don’t get me wrong I don’t take medicating kids lightly
And my son responded to therapy and NVR
But my nephew is way better on Prozac, so much happier

I know it’s unpopular to say this here but I’d beg, borrow and steal to see a private child psychiatrist

You have tried a lot of Routes already clearly and they haven't helped

Meds can calm things down whilst you explore other solutions

I wish you strength and light at the end of the tunnel OP

Can I ask how NVR helped? Because when we had that this week, she told us we need to work on de-escalating a meltdown.

I said that exactly what we need help with because nothing we do works.

She said walk away.

I said we had tried that so so so many times.
She said "do whatever we feel so right at the time"
I said we have. Since he was 3. And things get worse.
It doesn't matter how calm or soothing we are, whether we ignore the bad behaviour (that makes him worse) or respond in anger ourselves (of course makes him worse) or individually leave the house for a breather. Nothing works.

So I ended up slamming the laptop shut and cancelling all other appointments.

I begged her to give me just ONE too to use, to help or with. ANYTHING.

She repeated "just do whatever you feel is right at the time"

Laptop - SHUT.

She emailed me later to say the meetings progress as we go along.

I didn't reply. I was just asking her for one thing.

We have two meetings which cost over £200 and she gave us absolutely nothing to work with.

I couldn't bare to spend any more money on it.

Asking her for one *tool

Not too.

I don't feel like I was asking her for much either.

My take on that is that the violent meltdowns are the summit of a mountain and the hardest thing of all to try and modify because the thinking part of your dc's brain has totally shut down at that point.
I would suggest giving up on working on them other than trying to keep everyone as safe as possible.
Focus on all the other points of your dc's life that come before the meltdown, then in time the meltdowns become more manageable.

Has your ds had some testing to look at anxiety, depression etc scores ? If so what did they look like?

That is awful. Hope you get some help OP x

I put a link earlier but I’ll paste the video in my next post

Here’s the thing my son isn’t your son
So whatever I say is probably useless ! But the takeaway for me was
This is common
That parents arnt to blame
That parents are in many ways the client and need support
Parental presence
Making small gestures after a violent meltdown , ie go in , take a glass
Of water
Strike when the iron is cold

But OP reading your posts I think you have issues beyond this , hence my strong advice to get medical rather than mental health support

That does sound very annoying, OP. We've had the same with a Relate "family therapist". No actual idea about the practical problems of the situation.

I think you need to accept that you can’t ‘fix’ your child and that you need to ‘parent’ the child you have, not the child you wish you had. It took me a long time to get my head around this myself. My DS has ASD and PDA and ‘parenting’ him does not work. He is treated as an equal in our house even though he is 9, this is the only way we can have any semblance of normality. We respect him for who he is and know that he can’t control his anxiety which is the source of his controlling behaviour. He is medicated with ‘baby’ Prozac but it doesn’t solve his issues. There is no magic solution I’m afraid.

Worth watching purely because he is the granddaddy of this whole NVR school of thought
And it might comfort you a bit
But also if it’s not applicable that’s fine also

Agree clarins

Very wise words

Thank you.

I think it just isn't applicable in this case.

I do think he needs medicating.

And as PP mentioned it was the tip of the iceberg and I totally believe things were bubbling underneath. Life is hard for him, friendships are hard, it all comes to a head and this angry outbursts occur.

I think it needs medication but that's not a choice at the moment. So my only hope is therapy for now.

@lunarlife

My take on that is that the violent meltdowns are the summit of a mountain and the hardest thing of all to try and modify because the thinking part of your dc's brain has totally shut down at that point. I would suggest giving up on working on them other than trying to keep everyone as safe as possible. Focus on all the other points of your dc's life that come before the meltdown, then in time the meltdowns become more manageable.

Has your ds had some testing to look at anxiety, depression etc scores ? If so what did they look like?

No. Do you know what these tests are called? I could probably get my hands on some.

May I gently ask why you are so adamant you won’t get medication ?
I know you are low and defeated
But I’m curious how many NO you have had and from whom
I’m sorry if that’s not helpful

@Thisisworsethananticpated

May I gently ask why you are so adamant you won’t get medication ? I know you are low and defeated But I’m curious how many NO you have had and from whom I’m sorry if that’s not helpful

I absolutely want medication. Please see my other post.

@Cabinfever10

Whoever told you that you can't medicate an ADHD child due to them having tics is talking out of their arse! My ds has ASD, ADHD and tourettes all of which causes tics and has been on ADHD medication since he was 6. The same is true for all of the children in his support group. Talk to your gp and ask about a referral to pediatrics about his adhd asap

^ this. Our DS has ADHD and Tourette's and was medicated.

I have son who is now 18. He became violent around the age of 12. At the same time he got an autism diagnosis. It was a very hard 3 years. Camhs did little. They said they didn’t diagnose PDA but to use PDA strategies. They said go away. They only gave medication when my GP got involved as I was totally black and blue when I went to see her. I know your circumstances are different. Medication did help a bit.

We saw someone privately who was allegedly an expert in challenging behaviour. She told him he had a little demon inside him. She was highly recommended!! Then she sacked us as he hit me in a session.

One thing we found did help s lot was music therapy. But then the therapist left. He wouldn’t engage with the next one.

I also recommend looking up Yvonne Newbold on facebook. Excellent practical and non judgemental courses and advice.

I don’t have any useful suggestions. But unfortunately you’re not alone. I think one thing that helped me in the end was the acceptance that there is no ‘cure’. There isn’t going to be a professional that can totally solve this but there will be things that can help. Like previous posters have said it definitely helps having low demands. Although it took my younger twins a long time to realise I wasnt favouring my son. I was being pragmatic. I’d rather he eat in his room than not eat st all for example. I now know that hunger made him more likely rob lose it. We always have some food ready to go at an instant!

I hope you’re taking time to look after yourself.

[quote Anne1958]Op,

When in the UK we see Stephen Westgarth and he’ll even do home visits. He’s excellent at what he does and I’ve no hesitation suggesting that you consider seeing him.

www.childpsychiatryuk.com/contact/[/quote]
Op, I think you missed this post of mine. It’s the name and contact details of my sons psychiatrist that we use when in the Uk. He’s been his Dr for many years and specialises in child and adolescent mental health.

If I recall forrrvtly he’s the one who first medicated my son for Tic disorder when we were in the uk for 3 months at a sensory clinic. I think it was Abilify but it was a long time ago and over the years our Middle East based drs have tweaked things medicine wise as sadly the Abilify wasn’t enough for my son in the long term and with many other things considered.

These are the tests that we had.

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children – Fifth Edition
Wechsler Individual Achievement Tests – Version III
NEPSY II Developmental Tests of Neuropsychological Function – Second Edition Beery-Buktenica Developmental Test of Visual-Motor Integration (VMI) Comprehensive Trail-Making Test (CTMT)
Conner’s Continuous Performance Test Version 5
Conner’s 3 form
Beck Youth Inventories – Second Edition

Beck youth inventory looks at depression, anxiety etc.

It seems like you could have continued pursuing medication but chose not to. You've given a few conflicting answers on it which is why people keep suggesting it.

She told him he had a little demon inside him.

Identifying the anger or bad feelings as a separate monster (or similar) and then getting the child to draw etc this monster and interact with them is a common therapeutic approach. It is designed to reduce the shame that the dc feels about the behavior and increase the objectivity the child can have about their behavior.

I just wanted to add that making music and interacting our dog have both helped our dc regulate his emotions.

Hello

That much be exhausting for you all. All behaviour is telling something.
The NATP organisation provide useful suggestions using PACE. Many carers who have the most traumatised young people use these methods for violent outbursts. Therapeutic methods have been shown to work.

Minimise things around so make the environment less sensory and also by removing things there are less weapons he can throw. Think a minimal type living area and bedroom area. All things away. Non confrontation so he doesn't escalate upwards further.

Also second opinion from GP - see someone else about meds. Previous poster up thread was right.

Good luck it is really, really tough

link

www.naotp.com/

OP, a lot of what posters are suggesting without putting a name to it is the ‘low arousal’ approach to dealing with challenging behaviour. It’s generally considered to be specific to those on the spectrum but it’s not really as it can be adapted to be used with the likes of ADHD

It’s something we used with our son and there is a website by Prof Andy McDonnell that will explain a lot beyond the bit I’m posting below.

What is the Low Arousal Approach? The Low Arousal approach emphasises a range of behaviour management strategies that focus on the reduction of stress, fear and frustration and seeks to prevent aggression and crisis situations

@Anne1958
Hi thanks, it wasn't that I missed it, I just forgot to reply.
He's in Newcastle and we are Brighton.

@imyournextdoorneighbour did it make his tics worse?
What medication is he on? How old is he? Does he have side effects?