I really need help with my violent son. And I'm willing to pay for the help. But how?

[SortYourLifeHelp]

My son is nearly 10, middle child of three boys.

We have had trouble with his behaviour since he was about 3 years old. He has tics, allergies and ADHD (the later diagnosed privately) and they won't medicate the ADHD until older because he can take the standard meds due to his tics.

He had a 2.5 hour outbursts the other night because he went to bed at 8pm, but he wanted to go to bed at 8pm.
In other words, it's over absolutely nothing.
He was calling us fucking cunts. Punching us, throwing metal toys at our heads with all his strength. Saying he was going to smash up our phone, smashes the house up, he's a danger to himself, and the rest of us. The police didn't want to know.
He's run away in the past.

Things we have tried so far

• CAMHS, waiting waiting still waiting
• Private diagnoses of ADHD who recommended the triple P parenting programme, at a glance that didn't seem to be the answer though?
• spoken to the school, who have referred us to child services, for a key worker, still waiting.
• paid for a private therapist that does NVR non-violent restoration. I stopped that after I was paying £75 an hour for her to tell me the way we handle his meltdowns and simmer him down is to walk away. (Tried that!) and do "whatever we felt would work at the time" TRIED THAT. As if we want his violent meltdowns to continue into the night.

-grounding him makes him worse
-any kind of punishment causes hours long of violent meltdowns.

We are desperate.

We have some money left from our house sale, it's not going to last long so I want to pay someone to help us, but who?? How??

We are in Brighton if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Please help us.

Thank you. I'm taking all this in.

We can't medicate, they won't prescribe it because of his tics.
I can't call the police to protect him because I tried on Monday and they refused to come.
When I asked them what happens when he hurts himself? They said call an ambulance if it's serious.
They don't want to know.

I'm waiting for an email from two companies who do psychotherapy/behaviour therapy with children and families with adhd.

Fingers crossed.

I'm familiar with Amaze. I thought they were more for LD than kids with ADHD?

DS is a tween with ADHD and coming to the end of a year of therapy with a child psychologist.
It has had a great impact on his ability to regulate his emotional outbursts and his anxiety.
It isn't always perfect but he is able to calm down much quicker after an outburst, they are less often and less severe.
He able to understand what is happening in his own body and why and I think feels more in control of it.
He isn't on medication although we wouldn't rule it out completely in the future if needed.

So my advice is to keep looking for a child psychologist that your ds clicks with.

I second BIBIC for an assessment. Also, look at Dr Ross Green - The Explosive Child/lives in the balance website. And PDA strategies.

I can only empathise - I have a two foot gaping hole in my bedroom door because I had the temerity to insist that DS ate his dinner at the table with us I really ought to know better!

@SortYourLifeHelp I have sent a PM.

@bellropes
So sorry to hear that. I know how bad the NHS can be I had a nightmare with them at first with ds (many many upheld complaints and an mp later) we were transferred to a different hospital and team they were marvelous and even gave me my asd diagnosis too (had been misdiagnosed as many things over the decades as girls can't be autistic 🤬).
Some NHS boards just don't seem to care whilst others really do it seems like a postcode lottery

What we did as parents was make sure that there was a steady routine, regular balanced meals, daily exercise outdoors, a count down before being asked to leave screens and 30 minutes sensory activity every night before bed.
As well as any specific tasks the the therapist had asked for.

My ds used to lash out and have outbursts when he was around that age. The less food he had had, the worse the outbursts would be.

It was like a deterioration of his whole personality and an eventual shift into someone I no longer recognised and no control of himself anymore.

I dont know if it was down to the food, or him pushing through the hormone stage, but it ironed out eventually. Now he recognises his moods shifting and talks about it, and he tries to eat something. Sometimes the mood makes him not want to eat, but he also doesn't want to stay feeling like that so he will force something down.

Also...sensory stuff help. Stretch Armstrong, a bowl of flour to dip his hands in, a jelly feeling toy that he can swing back and forth with its leg.
The jelly toy was a good one because he could swing it really hard when angry, and it somehow wouldn't snap (which was his aim, I think). Obviously the flour will be a no go if he is too deep in the rage, but if you can catch him before it escalates it might help?

The police really should be coming out. It is their job. They came to mine once and basically just restrained ds until he calmed down. Children services would tell me to call the police during outbursts, and the police would tell me children services needed to step up with help. The police encouraged me to call them to come out everytime as they have to put a report in to CS every time they are called out so they were wanting to help force CS hand.

I see that someone above has mentioned food reactions. These may help

www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/support-factsheets/introduction-to-food-intolerance

www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/symptom-factsheets/adhd-and-diet

www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/symptom-factsheets/tics-tic-disorder-tourette-symptoms

www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/symptom-factsheets/autism-a-asperger

@SortYourLifeHelp

I'm familiar with Amaze. I thought they were more for LD than kids with ADHD?

They do work with children with ADHD, I'm pretty sure of it. They've got a helpline so no harm in calling?

OP, first of all - hugs. I have a 10yo, currently undergoing diagnosis for ASD/PDA, who can behave similarly. The last few days have been pretty horrific here. So I really do know where you're coming from.

There's lots that others have said, practical advice, which is helpful. The thing that's made the biggest difference to our lives was joining the SEND VCB parents support group on Facebook. It's run by a wonderful woman, Yvonne Newbold, who has been through all this and worse - and it's based on the principle that VCB (violent and challenging behaviour) in SEND children is largely rooted in anxiety. The group is amazingly supportive, and her advice and webinars have been really, really helpful to us. We're not out of the woods yet, but we can at least see the trees and we know what they are, rather than just fumbling around in darkness. Please do look it up - it's been a godsend for us.

@SortYourLifeHelp

I'm familiar with Amaze. I thought they were more for LD than kids with ADHD?

Amaze supports parents and children with SEN including ADHD. They are very helpful and have lots of support available including help with DLA forms which can provide much needed financial support.

If you think that he may have PDA or be on the autistic spectrum, I would also contact Mascot. Another local charity for parents of children on the autistic spectrum - they don't have to be diagnosed yet.

And as PP have said tics don't rule out medication for ADHD. I would definitely get a second opinion on that.

As others have said. Although a key facet of ADHD is emotional dysregulation this does sound like it could be more than that. Having a meltdown about going to bed at 8 when that's when he wanted to go to bed and punishments and boundary setting making things worse does sound like it could potentially be PDA. I would definitely have a look into that and see if you think it might fit.

My niece has ADHD, autism, APD and tics. Today’s is the really annoying whistle. Her ADHD is medicated. Not sure why the tics would prevent it. Colours, flavours, some odours and particularly artificial sweeteners send her instantly loopy.

I’d revisit medication for him.

As others have said, I would push back re. lack of medication. Look at NICE guidelines and go armed with the right information.

I can see why the police declined to attend. Although I'm aware of them attending similar incidents it doesn't really solve anything. They sometimes attend and stay until things have calmed, but it doesn't stop things kicking off again. They're not going to criminalise your son, nor should they (I'm sure you don't want this for him either).

Definitely knock hard at the door of social services. Ring the duty team, ring the emergency duty team out of hours, keep pushing and letting them know when you're in crisis.

CAMHS waiting lists are so long at the minute, the lack of service is really appalling. I hope you get some help soon.

@Radio4Rocks

Talk o the emergency social worker and say you think he will have to go into care because you can no longer cope.

That worked for friends of hours, suddenly the help was there.

As someone who worked in children's services in Brighton and hove I am sorry to say what she has been offered is about all there is. There is no secret store of help for children on the verge of care.

some really good replies here. i just wanted to add regards to diet, an omega 3 supplement and magnesium really helped here. keep going, youre doing amazing

Who did the private adhd diagnosis? Can you request an nhs review?

Try to remember adhders are usually 6 years below their actual age when processing emotions. So he is a very large 4 year old having a tantrum.

Iv found the incredible years programme the most useful. Completed via zoom last year.

Adhders tend to have very low self esteem. Iv found lots of praise really helps and its easiest place to start. Literally praising everything they do (you feel really daft to begin with).

My adult son is Autistic but he also has Tourette’s and a form of Epilepsy. He’s medicated and I’m confused when you say your son can’t be medicated because of his tics.

And after having a wee think about your boy I’m wondering if he would benefit from having his diagnosis reviewed.

@Anne1958

My adult son is Autistic but he also has Tourette’s and a form of Epilepsy. He’s medicated and I’m confused when you say your son can’t be medicated because of his tics.

And after having a wee think about your boy I’m wondering if he would benefit from having his diagnosis reviewed.

What is he medicated with?

Thanks for the links everyone, it's really helping.

Student paediatric nurse here, about to qualify, like @Anne1958 states you absolutely can medicate ADHD with tics. Please ask for a second opinion from your GP, a referral to a specialist service. I have seen absolute miracles occur with the help of medication.

@JackieWeaver4PrimeMinister

Student paediatric nurse here, about to qualify, like *@Anne1958* states you absolutely can medicate ADHD with tics. Please ask for a second opinion from your GP, a referral to a specialist service. I have seen absolute miracles occur with the help of medication.

I know, I've looked at the BNF, ironically I am a paediatric nurse as well.

The issue is, the meds they could prescribe can cause tics and make existing tics worse.

That's not an opinion, it is fact unfortunately.

Our eldest child has Tourette's and we have seen first hand how painfully and debilitating Tourette's can be, and we are just thankful that our middle child with ADHD 'only' has tics.

Once you medicate a child with tics and it exasperates them, once they are off the medication the tics stay that bad. They don't reduce again.

We can't add that into the menu. We just can't.

There's a final medication that doesnt exasperate tics but the side effects are brutal and not one we want to consider just yet (but I'm getting closer) due to his age. It's better to wait until they are older.

So I'm definitely not looking at meds but guidance, therapy and coping tools at this point.

Exacerbate.

Not exasperate.

My brain isn't in gear.