To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

I’m over 60 and have spent lockdown sewing scrubs and masks for NHS, coordinating a foodbank, in a childcare bubble with DS and DiL so they can work in NHS. Sorry if that is of no value to OP. I should just have locked myself up and watched netflix. I haven’t booked a holiday and won’t be going to a pub anytime soon. Stop this horrible ageism.

@sneakysnoopysniper

Im in my mid 70s and not gardening and knitting. I single handedly run a business which is 99% export so bringing valuable trade into this country. Then there are the small matters of the 45+ years I spent working in the community when I was employed and the thousands and thousands of pounds Ive paid in taxes.

When you can compete with that OP post again and we will continue the debate.

I don't see how that is even relevant to the discussion! Do you have paid more tax, and contributed more, you've been able to as you are considerably older than me, so I won't 'be able to compete' no. Where this imaginary competition of worth and taxes has come from I don't know. Weird.

So that gives you more rights does it? Errr no!

The whole pandemic hasn't been fair

Different people have had the shitty end of the stick at different points

Try being CEV, or having a CEV child, and seeing the number of posts about how the very vulnerable are acceptable collateral damage as about to die anyhow.

And add six months shielding, with early weeks being full SI, when you dreamed of living by the lockdown rules that applied to a healthy under fifty yo

And then compare that to staggered start to ability to holiday abroad

This is the last time I am explaining a perfectly clear viewpoint to people who can't be bothered to read posts properly.

There’s a difference between explaining your viewpoint and people agreeing with you. You sound resentful and selfish.

By your post you're saying those who have paid the most tax snd contributed the most (in your eyes) and worked the longest should get their freedom first. Madness. I wonder if your opinion would be the same if you are my age? I think not. It is likely we will nearly make our own contribution and pay our own taxes in turn. Possibly more than you ever will to pay for this mess.

No where have a said that the older generation have no or less. worth. That would mean I feel that about my own 99 yo gran, my in laws, my own parents and my aunt and uncle, all aged 70+. Which I don't, obviously. Whereas you have. So who is the ageist?

I don't have an issue with the level of clarity

I just think you are plain wrong.

I mentioned the CEV, as an example of unfairness.

Or did you think, in the interests of it being all the same for everyone, that everyone should have lived by shielding rules (no exercise concession in lockdown 1, perhaps, because as some people can't, no-one must?). Or have the everywhere in the highest tier, because some areas need to be? So, perhaps like Leicester, no lifting?

It is shit when you get the shitty end of the stick. But let's not pretend that it's not been happening all along. And when a group that has previously had the easiest conditions, finds themselves missing out for the first time, it might come as a bit of a shock.

But they buttressed the divided approach, by enjoying the benefits of being the most favoured group. So it's really really unlikely that there will be any change to pandemic management systems in which people are sorted by random biological, geographical or age category, as they've been standard for pretty much a year now.

It's just that a different group has spotted a potential impact. And it's a less extensive one than many, as it's a few weeks difference only.

I mentioned the CEV, as an example of unfairness.

Indeed. Whatever I think about this awful incompetent government, they've been wise in handing over the vaccination task to our wonderful NHS, and sticking to clinical guidelines about who is most at risk of serious illness or death as a consequence of catching the novel Corona virus.

And really @studychick81 you sound very childish, selfish and whiny to be complaining that 70 year olds are being vaccinated before you.

Not to mention really nastily ageist. I'm over 60 with underlying conditions which make me clinically vulnerable - although luckily not CEV - that must have been hell for the last year. I've had to be very careful, though. I WFH and rarely leave the house. No "Eating out to help out" - no holiday last summer, n meeting up with friends unless I trust they are very careful. I've had the vaccine, and that is a good thing - the more of us vaccinated, the better. Your turn will come.

I've been working all hours, not 'knitting and gardening' - just work & sleep. So buck up your ideas, little one. You too will be 70 one day - well, you have to hope you will, the alternative is worse ...

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

Oh the utter ignorance!

I don't see how else they can do this. It would be madness for people who at are low risk of serious illness or death to be vaccinated before those who are higher risk.

Then there's the issue that other countries are likely to require tourists to produce vaccination certificates. What is the UK government supposedly to do about that? It's perfectly reasonable that these other countries will want to protect their populations from unvaccinated travellers potentially spreading Covid there, especially if they haven't yet been able to roll out the vaccine.

It's also necessary for various governments to do what they can to guard against variants spreading around the world the way the so-called 'Kent variant' did.

It really does look like you'll have been vaccinated by the time we get to the summer holidays anyway. They're rolling out the vaccine ahead of schedule.

Firstly if the vaccinations stop the NHS being overwhelmed by Covid-19 cases and they can return to normal care giving it will be a good thing. At least the vaccination programme is moving at pace.

If you're going to ask for vaccination certificates then the place you really need to do it is supermarkets where people don't social distance. But I don't think it's even practical. I can't see why those who need a vaccination won't be able to request one from their doctor foc. It's sensible to protect our citizens from catching Covid-19 while on holiday in a country where there are fewer people vaccinated.

generally 60 isn't working age

What makes you think that? Retirement age is 65+ now. I know loads of over 60s who work.

I have just been looking at BBC and the plan is to vaccinate all over 50s by 15th April.

It doesn’t say how they will split the remaining adult population (22m) but the aim is to do everyone by the end of July. That’s quite a big window so I am hoping to be done well before the deadline (I am 48).

I have a holiday booked for mid August (carried over from last year). If I am vaccinated I will go but if not I won’t.

I can’t see me wanting to go in pubs/shops until I have been vaccinated either but I don’t begrudge those who already have been and when the restrictions start being lifted will finally feel safe to go out. Especially the elderly who most likely have been more isolated (especially if they don’t work) and will have in most cases less time left to make up for what they feel they have missed out on.

Are you related to Pam OP?

This is the last time I am explaining a perfectly clear viewpoint to people who can't be bothered to read posts properly.

OP - but could you explain the bit about people over 60 not working though?

Where do you think that the money comes from to pay mortgages/rent/bills/food?

If there is some "magic money" that we aren't aware of, it would be useful to know.

Just to add, I have no problem with needing a vaccine card or negative covid test for people to travel abroad I think if unvaccinated people want to travel they will have to suck up the cost of the teat.

As for cards for entry to pubs and other venues, I don’t think it would work. You could just borrow someone’s card and pubs won’t have the ability or inclination to check everyone like airlines would. If they were to have photo cards that would be more accurate bit take longer to implement. It also would discriminate against those who are unable to have the vaccine/choose not to.

We just have to hope that once most are vaccinated the chances lf catching covid for the rest becomes an acceptable risk (i.e. tiny).

So in summary, foreign travel, there should be something in place, general life within the uk -open up to all at the same time and then it is up to the individual whether or not they take the risk (I won’t).

Test not teat!

No, business should be open to all, not just those vaccinated. If the CV and those most at risk are vaccinated then it's time to open up to EVERYONE. We are in a different place to when we opened up last time in terms of risk as we have the vaccination.

So just to be very clear - you are saying that if the government had an option of opening eg theatres sooner only to the vaccinated, because of the much higher risk in those venues, or waiting an extra, say, four months until there was sufficient vaccine uptake (not just every adult offered but enough vaccinated to reduce the risks to an acceptable level) you’d want them to stay closed that extra four months. Fuck those businesses, fuck those jobs, fuck those people who haven’t been able to work in months.

Nice. Not selfish at all.

This is the last time I am explaining a perfectly clear viewpoint to people who can't be bothered to read posts properly.

People understand you, OP. They just think you’re wrong.

From my perspective, vaccine passports are more or less inevitable for international travel. For domestic stuff I think they are a possibility but very unlikely until every adult has been offered a vaccine.

After that the question is whether those who have refused the vaccine will be able to access the same things as the vaccinated, which is a different ethical question from the question of whether those earlier in the vaccine queue should be able to enjoy the benefits ahead of those later in the queue.

We think everyone should get the same freedoms at the same time. We should all be free to do what we like within the rules at the same time. The vaccination passports will potentially allow those who have been vaccinated to have more freedoms earlier than those who have been offered it due to their age, no-one is arguing the order of the vaccination priority list, only having/not having the vaccination allows you to do.

This is the last time I am explaining a perfectly clear viewpoint to people who can't be bothered to read posts properly.

Thanks for your succinct "clarification" that you do indeed think that people who are vaccinated before you shouldn't be allowed to do things because you haven't been vaccinated yet.

I don't think you are being reasonable.

@MonroeNotManson that's hilarious 😂

For foreign travel I would suggest a negative covid test is required there and back
Well we know how well that has worked!

I would suggest no one has to show a vaccination record to do anything within the rules until everyone has been offered a vaccination
Just because you're having a tantrum because you might not be able to go abroad this summer?

Unfairness, as in, others will get a better deal than us through mo fault of theirs is part of life.

It's really unfair that those who saved for years and then lost their job and need to sign on to UC get these savings into account, whilst a family who has never worked and got a nice inheritance get to keep claiming tax credits at the same level.

Puts your unfairness cry to shame really!

What makes you think that? Retirement age is 65+ now. I know loads of over 60s who work
Because OP probably lives a life where most of the people age knows has an occuparional pension they can claim at 60 and is big enough to retire...and take nice holidays 4 times a year.

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used

OP, you are expressing your views as if vaccination cards for internal use were a done deal and they are absolutely not. Please bear in mind how you phrase things next time.

I don't agree with vaccination cards OR vaccine passports by the way.

@JassyRadlett

No, business should be open to all, not just those vaccinated. If the CV and those most at risk are vaccinated then it's time to open up to EVERYONE. We are in a different place to when we opened up last time in terms of risk as we have the vaccination.

So just to be very clear - you are saying that if the government had an option of opening eg theatres sooner only to the vaccinated, because of the much higher risk in those venues, or waiting an extra, say, four months until there was sufficient vaccine uptake (not just every adult offered but enough vaccinated to reduce the risks to an acceptable level) you’d want them to stay closed that extra four months. Fuck those businesses, fuck those jobs, fuck those people who haven’t been able to work in months.

Nice. Not selfish at all.

Nope, I think those who are unvaccinated (as they are waiting to be invited for a vaccination) should be able to make the decision if they would like to go or not, not be told they can't go because they haven't had the vaccination. Along with, and at the exactly the same time as those who are vaccinated when things start opening up. No-one waits or is at the back of the line in terms of getting freedom back.

As others have pointed out- most of the time it is those young people who are needed to staff the tourist and entertainment sector anyway, so it can't be expected that they work amongst those who are vaccinated whilst not being vaccinated themselves and whilst not having the same freedoms too.

That's what would have to happen to be able to open these industries up, so you could say it's rather selfish that those who are vaccinated to expect that of the typically younger generation who do these jobs to do that.

@JassyRadlett

This is the last time I am explaining a perfectly clear viewpoint to people who can't be bothered to read posts properly.

People understand you, OP. They just think you’re wrong.

From my perspective, vaccine passports are more or less inevitable for international travel. For domestic stuff I think they are a possibility but very unlikely until every adult has been offered a vaccine.

After that the question is whether those who have refused the vaccine will be able to access the same things as the vaccinated, which is a different ethical question from the question of whether those earlier in the vaccine queue should be able to enjoy the benefits ahead of those later in the queue.

Yes, a different question and a very complex issue.

Fair 😂