To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

@andisaidgo

I am 60 this week and still work full time as I have done most of my life and I have a young adult daughter in the hospital who I have not seen for nearly a year. Many people I know are still working full time in this age group.

Oh and whilst we're at it. I have paid more taxes than you. I got my first jab last week and feel very entitled to it. Your holiday can wait there are more important things to think about at the present time. .

Who said you weren't entitled to the vaccination? Not me.

I have paid more taxes than you

How do you know that?
Even if it's true is that the yardstick?

I’ve not read the whole thread but many countries are requesting

• test that you’ve passed the illness and have antibodies
• negative test
• proof of vaccination.

The country I want to go to on holidays accepts one of the above for going there.

They can’t force you to have the vaccine when for example children can’t have it

Travel and tourist industries can get back on their feet without vaccination passports. I am more than happy to get a negative covid test to go abroad. That should be the criteria- not the vaccination.

Even if it offered much less protection and certainty to the local population, the travel co etc? Doesn’t reduce the chance of you bringing the virus back home with you? Increased the risk of new variants entering the country from less-vaccinated destinations? There’s a reason most countries have more significant entry restrictions than a single negative test, given the incubation period of this virus.

Even if it kept those sectors closed or at low capacity for months longer than otherwise?

None of those are certainties - but possibilities, particularly with lower vaccine rates in most countries. The travel and hospitality sectors are on their knees. Demand isn’t an issue, but capacity is. The faster they can return to full capacity, the more businesses and jobs that will be saved.

I don’t think there are straightforward answers to the above questions - and I don’t think this will be a massive issue in reality, as I’ve said - but your inflexibility and demands that ‘fairness’ be prioritised over potential impact on people’s jobs is quite interesting.

@andisaidgo

I am 60 this week and still work full time as I have done most of my life and I have a young adult daughter in the hospital who I have not seen for nearly a year. Many people I know are still working full time in this age group.

Oh and whilst we're at it. I have paid more taxes than you. I got my first jab last week and feel very entitled to it. Your holiday can wait there are more important things to think about at the present time. .

I’m sorry about your daughter. However , I’m from Spain. Haven’t seen my family for over q year now. So whilst I want to go holidays for my mental health , been able to go and visit my family is much more important for me. Your needs doesn’t trump mine.

Thank you for paying so many taxes ... I’m glad I can live in this country thanks to people like you .... I assume you’re a big important ceo ...

I said this
"but generally 60 isn't working age" not 50s.
And how many more people do you need giving you actual stats saying YES it is. I know you can read so I’m assuming you’re just stupid.

This is all speculation anyway, there is no definitive answer as to if a vaccine passport / card will even exist let alone be operational, but honestly I don’t blame the hospitality sector if they do insist on something to prove a vaccination or negative test. At the end of the day their duty of care to keep their staff safe trumps your demands to go to the cinema.

Yeah because the people that have constantly been told they're going to die if they catch a virus that is everywhere, the people that have stayed inside and not left the house for a year, the people that have given up medical care due to not seeing GPs etc they've had a grand old time

@LexMitior

There are lot of problems with vaccine passports and cards because they are probably discriminatory - for those who refuse the vaccine, how can their movement be lawfully restricted by the Government if there is no emergency or pandemic?

With employment, this is even worse. No job, no vaccine? What happens to your freedom of choice?

This

Just like the elderly and vulnerable have been stuck in all year, whilst the younger population have insisted, “Everything should be opened up. The death rate is only 5%. It doesn’t affect me or mine so I’m alright Jack. Why should we give up everything for the oldies? If you’re elderly or vulnerable stay in” you mean??

Where do you live? Im in England & haven't seen the above. Here lockdowns were not age restricted & vulnerable people included all ages. Anti lockdown people were also not confined to a particular age group.

I know some 50/60s are probably still working, I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age

Sorry, OP, but this is bollocks. I'm 65 and won't get my state pension until I'm 66. People younger than me will have to wait a little longer.

Most of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances haven't spent all their working lives in jobs where there was good pension provision or earned enough to make significant investment in a pension themselves. Almost everyone I know will have to wait at least until they get their state pension before they can retire, one is planning to defer hers and work until she's 71, because that way her pension will be more when she gets it. Others are considering equity release to give themselves enough to live on.

@Pillowcase123 it's been fantastic(!)
I mean literally not leaving the house and seeing nobody. It's made me vitamin d deficient helpfully as well
And still have to shield post vaccine so no, won't be going on holiday anytime soon

I'm amazed how many people are going on and on about the elderly but seem to be completely forgetting the working age shielding people

@andisaidgo

I am 60 this week and still work full time as I have done most of my life and I have a young adult daughter in the hospital who I have not seen for nearly a year. Many people I know are still working full time in this age group.

Oh and whilst we're at it. I have paid more taxes than you. I got my first jab last week and feel very entitled to it. Your holiday can wait there are more important things to think about at the present time. .

I think you feel very entitled full stop.

@VinylDetective

for those who refuse the vaccine, how can their movement be lawfully restricted by the Government if there is no emergency or pandemic?

It wouldn’t be our government restricting them, it would be another government refusing them entry.

You are making an assumption that they would not have their movement limited by the use of conditions at home - that is to travel, you must have a vaccine or test. This would seem likely, rather than leaving it to other countries to set the standards.

But I think the use of them is probably discriminatory and also ethically problematic. We say that vaccine is not mandatory, but to live "normally" it could be actually necessary in practice which made it near mandatory. This has human rights implications - we shouldn't drift into the idea that governments and indeed commercial companies can control our movement like this without a lot of thought as to whether it is lawful or ethical.

This thread has made me wonder how do we actually prove we have had the vaccine.

I have had mine and got given a booklet telling me about side effects but nothing with my name on it to say I have had it.

Also are vaccination passports only valid after the two doses or just one?

I don't think anyone should be allowed to go on holiday until everyone in the country can afford to go on holiday It isn't fair that the OP can afford a holiday when some people don't have enough money. She should wait until everyone can afford it.

And let's take it a step further. I want a diamond tiara. I actually think my mental health is suffering because I can't have a diamond tiara. My sense of well being and happiness would be hugely enhanced by having a diamond tiara to wear to Tesco. I don't think it's fair that other people can just walk into a jewellers and buy a diamond tiara when I've worked hard all my life and can't afford one. No-one should be able to buy one until I can have one.

I think these make as much sense as the OPs original point.

What a pathetic whingy thread op. Some people may have been "knitting and gardening" but the ones i know have been stuck inside staring at 4 walls, having mental breakdowns, been cut off from the world, with both meantal and physical health declining due to lack of socialisation and excersise and Having vital appointments canceled on them due to restrictions etc.

Yes us younger ones have had it hard, but - and i say this as someone who has worked in a school Everyday throughout lockdown, been my mums sole carer, been diagnosed with my own health problems, home schooled 2 children who both have health concerns - get over yourself! You sound like a toddler having a tantrum. A few more months till you will recive a jab, its not a life time away, its a few months! And no where have i seen that it will become compulsory in the ukto have a jab passport . Yes a few countries may require one - thats down to them - just go somewhere else!

@Confusedandshaken

I don't think anyone should be allowed to go on holiday until everyone in the country can afford to go on holiday It isn't fair that the OP can afford a holiday when some people don't have enough money. She should wait until everyone can afford it.

And let's take it a step further. I want a diamond tiara. I actually think my mental health is suffering because I can't have a diamond tiara. My sense of well being and happiness would be hugely enhanced by having a diamond tiara to wear to Tesco. I don't think it's fair that other people can just walk into a jewellers and buy a diamond tiara when I've worked hard all my life and can't afford one. No-one should be able to buy one until I can have one.

I think these make as much sense as the OPs original point.

It's not the same thing at all though, is it?

@Womencanlift

This thread has made me wonder how do we actually prove we have had the vaccine.

I have had mine and got given a booklet telling me about side effects but nothing with my name on it to say I have had it.

Also are vaccination passports only valid after the two doses or just one?

Didn’t you get a card with your name, date of vaccination, batch number of vaccine and date of next appointment? Everyone I know did.

@VinylDetective no I didn’t. Just a booklet saying these are the side effects to look out for and if you have others call this number

And let's take it a step further. I want a diamond tiara. I actually think my mental health is suffering because I can't have a diamond tiara. My sense of well being and happiness would be hugely enhanced by having a diamond tiara to wear to Tesco. I don't think it's fair that other people can just walk into a jewellers and buy a diamond tiara when I've worked hard all my life and can't afford one. No-one should be able to buy one until I can have one.

What's this got to do with the thread?

[quote Womencanlift]@VinylDetective no I didn’t. Just a booklet saying these are the side effects to look out for and if you have others call this number[/quote]
I was handed the card with the leaflet.

It isn’t fair. Many, many things aren’t fair. We missed out a “much needed” summer 2019 holiday because my kid got cancer. That wasn’t fair. It isn’t fair that some people have died in lockdown without seeing their families ever again. It isn’t fair that poorer communities have suffered more from Covid. I could go on and on about things that aren’t fair but vaccine passports are nowhere near the top of the list. I’d love to be able to travel this summer. But if I can’t, I’d like some people to be able to both because then at least they will be having a nice time and - from a purely selfish perspective - then the travel companies are more likely to still be financially viable whenever I can travel.

The vaccination is one protective factor.

Tests might be good enough for some travel but they are quite expensive and an additional cost on your holiday.

OP, your post would have been ok without the ageism. I’m nearly 60. Have been working as a HCP, full-time (and more!), since I was 21. I will continue to work until I retire in about five / six years. Should I be waiting for my holiday until everyone can go? Is it unfair that I was vaccinated early because of my job?

Life is unfair but what I do know is that if vaccination enables the travel industry quicker than the combination of testing and quarantine then so be it.

No-one is depriving you of a holiday. There are holidays to be had in the UK. Your post reads as though you will be stopped from going out at all!

Just checked again there and nothing apart from the leaflet. Guess I will ask at the second dose - apparently I will get a letter with the second appointment date

@Confusedandshaken

I don't think anyone should be allowed to go on holiday until everyone in the country can afford to go on holiday It isn't fair that the OP can afford a holiday when some people don't have enough money. She should wait until everyone can afford it.

And let's take it a step further. I want a diamond tiara. I actually think my mental health is suffering because I can't have a diamond tiara. My sense of well being and happiness would be hugely enhanced by having a diamond tiara to wear to Tesco. I don't think it's fair that other people can just walk into a jewellers and buy a diamond tiara when I've worked hard all my life and can't afford one. No-one should be able to buy one until I can have one.

I think these make as much sense as the OPs original point.

What a load of rubbish, your point is nonsense and nothing to do with my thread.

Plus, as I have pointed out several times now. I have not said everyone should wait because I can't go. I have said everyone should be able to go with or without the vaccination. Ffs read my posts properly.