To think that vaccination cards are very unfair.

[studychick81]

I can see why they are needed but I think it's very unfair how they are going to be used. I am 39 and have no health issues. I am not sure when I will get the vaccination as I ve read they haven't even decided groups beyond group 9. So, that means it could be ages before I get any normality back in my life like going to restaurants, pubs, concerts and holidays. I am unsure if I should book a holiday in August as I don't know if I will be vaccinated by then.

I am feel quite cross about this and my parents and friends parents (70+) are booking holidays and cruises etc and will get their lives back so much quicker than I will. Yet IMO my age group and below are the ones that have probably made the greatest sacrifices, juggling home schooling, work and studying, financial worries. Everyone I know in the 60+ category have spent their days gardening, knitting and being bored but with little stress and sacrifice, yet they will be the first to get their lives back.

Not only it is likely my age group and below will feel the lasting effects most from this and will likely pay the most for this with tax increases etc, we will be the last to get the benefits of coming out of lockdown. I don't think they should insist on vaccination cards until everyone is vaccinated.

@RedskyBynight

I know there will be exceptions but generally 60 isn't working age.

I don't know anyone (or even of anyone) who is 60 and not working. If you think people have stopped working by 60, you may have a rude awakening in 21 years' time.

Exactly. My DM is nearly 80 and still working. With the state pension going the way it is that is likely to be much more commonplace too. I'm 48 and would love to think I could stop work at 60. It's not going to happen.

ODFOD

That was so kind of you @MidnightHangingTree. What did you do?

Because if you just followed the rules like the rest of us, it wasn’t to protect the elderly or the vulnerable, but to protect the NHS so you could use it if you needed to.

Now I've got a holiday booked for July and I might not be able to go

Why won't you be able to go?

There is no way vaccination certificates will be brought in until everyone has booked and as I said above, they are hoping that all adults will be vaccinated by July and from what I've heard from my DD who is on the Novavax trial, even earlier.

I think there is such ageist horrible stuff on this thread, it's depressing.

I meant until every adult is vaccinated

The 86 year old was a beneficiary of the lockdown

Lockdown has had no beneficiaries. It’s been complete shit for everyone. The 21 year old probably has 60 odd years to make up for the missed year. His grandpa hasn’t.

Do you think pubs will ask to see proof of vaccination? How is that going to be possible for them to manage? Come on now

So that will make it better for them if all the older people agree not to go on holiday until the younger people have been vaccinated too? Seems pretty petty to me.

Why would it be petty for a 30 yr old flight attendant to not be massively keen about working again on flights whilst awaiting their own vaccine?

I totally agree it's unfair. I've given up a year of my life to help protect the elderly and the vulnerable against a virus that is realistically zero risk to me personally. Now I've got a holiday booked for July and I might not be able to go, but anyone over 60 or who is vulnerable is free to go and do as they please? It feels like a slap in the face. I'm well aware I'm being unreasonable but I'm fed up of sitting at home after a year. At least offer the vaccine privately so we can choose to pay for it and get on with our lives.

What utter nonsense! No passports have been introduced yet!

I said this
"but generally 60 isn't working age" not 50s.

On the bbc news tonight I actually saw a care home owner and a CEO of a plumbing company saying they are going to insist all new employees have the vaccination or they can't work. It then went on to say that airlines are seriously discussing needing a vaccination card to travel. A negative COVID test- yes fair enough. A vaccination card- no, not fair.

Why would it be petty for a 30 yr old flight attendant to not be massively keen about working again on flights whilst awaiting their own vaccine?

That's their choice. Either or do it or don't do it. I had those choices to make all through lockdown.

YABU, discriminatory, offensive and childish.

Yes we may well have to show proof of immunisation to travel abroad, much like we already do to travel to some countries. However, it seems extremely unlikely that any UK business, such as pub or cinema, will require proof of immunisation. OP mentions soft play and the like. Given that children are not included in the vaccination programme (as yet) it would be rather foolish for such a business to exclude all their customers.

OP, calm the fuck down, stop thinking that everyone over 50 is sitting on their arse knitting and just get a grip

I have never heard such self- absorbed snowflakery

That’s as maybe. There are certainly some unsavoury and badly expressed opinions on this thread

But on the flip side I listened to Any Answers on R4 a couple of weeks ago, where the fairness or otherwise of vaccine passports were being discussed, along with the general impact of Covid on the young (it was a special youth panel). 90% of the callers were older people basically saying ‘Suck it up, youngsters, life isn’t fair and I’m off on my hols’. One caller was even whingeing that his planned Saga cruise was at risk because his second vaccine dose was slightly delayed.

I was pretty sanguine about the idea of vaccine passports for travel until that point, even if my own youngish family were disadvantaged. But that really stuck in my craw - because it’s perfectly fine, it seems, to characterise all Millennials as selfish snowflakes, but dare to even imply that some Baby Boomers may be just a tiny bit entitled, or suggest that intergenerational inequality needs to be looked at, and you’re automatically dismissed as an ageist idiot.

That's their choice. Either or do it or don't do it. I had those choices to make all through lockdown.

Well it may be a choice of employment or not. However it's not petty is it?

@VinylDetective

The 86 year old was a beneficiary of the lockdown

Lockdown has had no beneficiaries. It’s been complete shit for everyone. The 21 year old probably has 60 odd years to make up for the missed year. His grandpa hasn’t.

Beneficiary was a poor choice of word, of course lockdown is shit for everyone. I meant in the sense that stopping covid from letting rip was for the benefit of the vulnerable.

The younger generation have the least to fear from covid but on this proposal would be locked down the longest. That is a glaring unfairness. I’ve already said it might be unavoidable if it’s the way to get certain industries open ASAP, but I can totally see why OP would be pissed off.

@VinylDetective

The 86 year old was a beneficiary of the lockdown

Lockdown has had no beneficiaries. It’s been complete shit for everyone. The 21 year old probably has 60 odd years to make up for the missed year. His grandpa hasn’t.

Alternatively - the grandfather has had 86 years to enjoy holidays. Who says the grandson will have that long?

It’s all subjective to this he has this, she has that. At the end of the day you are saying it’s ok for someone to have an opportunity over another due to their age.

That is an ageist statement.

Definition - Ageism is the stereotyping and discrimination against individuals or groups on the basis of their age. Ageism can take many forms, including prejudicial attitudes, discriminatory practices, or institutional policies and practices that perpetuate stereotypical beliefs.

Younger people who are not given the equal opportunity for international travel are being discriminated against. It’s as simple as that.

@MidnightHangingTree

I totally agree it's unfair. I've given up a year of my life to help protect the elderly and the vulnerable against a virus that is realistically zero risk to me personally. Now I've got a holiday booked for July and I might not be able to go, but anyone over 60 or who is vulnerable is free to go and do as they please? It feels like a slap in the face. I'm well aware I'm being unreasonable but I'm fed up of sitting at home after a year. At least offer the vaccine privately so we can choose to pay for it and get on with our lives.

We’re all given up a year to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. We’re all fed up of our own four walls. And, no you can’t pay to queue jump, that’s an appalling idea.

Well it may be a choice of employment or not. However it's not petty is it?

No that scenario isn't petty. I shouldn't have said that about the air hostesses without thinking it through properly. I don't think we should prevent people from going on holiday. But I understand why people wouldn't want to operate those flights until they have their vaccines either.

"Some 50s/60s are probably still working" !

Younger people who are not given the equal opportunity for international travel are being discriminated against. It’s as simple as that

Quite. Always plenty of cries of ‘ageism!’ on MN, some of which are merited - but rarely any recognition that ageism works both ways (and I’ve seen numerous examples of ageism against the young on here throughout the pandemic).

@DianaT1969

Where is this place that I can go to when I'm 60 to knit and bake all day? I won't receive my pension until I'm 67 and I probably won't be in a position to retire then.

@OP - nobody has asked you for a vaccine certificate yet. Do you always jump the gun?

You're allowed to book travel just like 'the oldies' anytime you want. Nobody is stopping you. Find an issue where there actually is one.

No no-one is stopping me booking it, but I am reluctant to incase it is brought in and then we can't go.

I do think in general those of working age, with young families or those studying and working with young families have potentially had it the hardest in lockdown. I say in general, before people pile on with their own personal experiences. Yet, apart from CV and those who are critical workers on that category we are potentially the last to benefit from coming out of lockdown.

I'm against these cards.

Am not anti vax. I'm having mine any day now (group 6) but I do believe in bodily autonomy and everyone having a right to work and live as normal after June 21st. some people can't have the vaccines because of health issues or personal or religious beliefs.

Why should those people be penalised?

@Erkrie well thank you for having the grace to admit that. That's largely why I see it as problematic & the debate is far more nuanced that some on here are suggesting

There are lot of problems with vaccine passports and cards because they are probably discriminatory - for those who refuse the vaccine, how can their movement be lawfully restricted by the Government if there is no emergency or pandemic?

With employment, this is even worse. No job, no vaccine? What happens to your freedom of choice?

[quote gigity]@Blockedoff how did you get that from my post? 😆
Where did I say anything about needing a vaccine to work?

Tourism & leisure tend to have a young workforce. Some may not want to work whilst awaiting their vaccine. [/quote]
I work in domestic tourism and pretty much all our employees are 40+!