Friend has completely changed

[Annapops1]

Good evening all, spent a while deciding on whether or not to post this on here but after several sleepless nights I'd really appreciate some advice.

Been friends with 'sarah' for 30 years, very close almost like sisters. Godmother to each others children and always the first person to call in a crisis or with a funny story etc.

We've been chatting about faith / religion and had decided that once lockdown was over we would quite like to go to a modern church and see what it was all about. We checked it out on zoom and all looked great, rock band on stage and young speakers etc. I'm not particularly religious but after loosing my mum I'd like to think that she is still "with us" in some way.

Anyways...my friend called me to say that she'd got chatting to a school mum who goes to the said church and that they'd arranged a walk. All fine. Following the walk friend calls to tell me how amazing mum friend is and that she'd love me to meet her etc. Friend goes on another walk with mum friend, calls me later to say how this mum friend has told her about when she met God and how Harry Potter is evil and encourages children to practice witchcraft.

Fast forward and friend and mum friend have met several more times...each time I get a phone call tell me things along the lines of she has now given her body to Jesus, how she's prayed for me to be filled with God's blood, that she's taken phones off her children as they encourage unsavoury activities etc etc.

This week being half term we met up with our children for a 3 hour walk...I kid you not I got "God" the whole time. Now going back to above, I'm not the anti-christ as I was happy to explore the new church etc but this is on another level. We got to the the highest point and she raised her hands and shouted how she loves Jesus. I was then told that if I didn't accept Jesus into my heart then I'd loose my place in heaven. I tried to change the subject but to no avail.

I literally couldn't wait to get home. This was now 4 days ago and I just don't know what to think. I've not heard from her since and I feel like I've completely lost my friend. She's unrecognisable...the things she's was coming out with to me makes me think she's been practically brainwashed.

Please tell me if you think I am overreacting? If you got this far, well done

I was a Baptist convert, although not extreme. If I hadn’t moved cities I’d probably still be a keen church member, but my new church leadership were transparently self-seeking and hypocritical.

The desire to have someone tell you exactly what to do to perform life perfectly can be very strong when you are struggling.

I agree that her DH would be my first port of call.

I too have witnessed the sudden and extreme conversion to born again Christian and it is all consuming and alarming to witness. This church most definitely 'found' most of its congregation though supporting the vulnerable. Not all 'evangelical' churches are bad, but they are fixed and unwavering in their viewpoint, so if your friend is immersing herself in this church, it will just get harder and harder to reach her.

I would approach her DH sooner rather than later.

Another idea - don't know if this would work - find a more moderate church and ask her to come with you? Perhaps if she can talk to a priest/preacher/spiritual leader who can reassure her that she can be a Christian without taking it to the extreme, you might reach her.

Definitely don’t cut her off. What you’re describing sounds fairly typical of new converts at a church I used to live near. It was actually a really great church but some of the congregation were pretty full on. Some of the new converts were particularly over the top. Most of them calmed down over time. Some lost their faith, some didn’t. A real mix. I can totally understand why you’re unsettled and worried. It’s really hard to understand from the outside. Can you attend the church with her a couple of times? The majority of the congregation /church leadership may not be as OTT as your friend is being. I would guess this is going to be a really tricky patch for your friendship but it doesn’t mean it’s over. Something big is happening in your friends life. Try to watch it calmly if you can, without panicking. This lockdown is exposing a lot of people’s vulnerabilities. It doesn’t mean she’s going crazy

My late sister-in-law got sucked in to a similar 'church' when she was lonely and depressed. Then her two adult children went along and then the grandchildren. The latter are now in their 20s, with all the views expressed by the OP's friend, plus creationism for good measure. The grandson is going to be an 'elder' (self-important) but he has never sent his grandfather a birthday or Christmas card, let alone a present. I don't hold out any hope of the friendship resuming in its previous form, I'm afraid.

I think speaking to her OH would be a very patronising and disrespectful thing to do.
Whether or not you agree with her choices she is an adult, and is allowed to make her own decisions regarding religion.

How she negotiates that with her OH is her business too, and doesn't need others to interfere.

@speakout

I think speaking to her OH would be a very patronising and disrespectful thing to do. Whether or not you agree with her choices she is an adult, and is allowed to make her own decisions regarding religion.

How she negotiates that with her OH is her business too, and doesn't need others to interfere.

But OP is concerned for her friend. OP has known her friend a long time and considers her to be 'under the influence' of someone. I don't think it's patronising - I is checking that she is ok. I think that's what friendship SHOULD look like.

Hey. I"m a bit worried about Friend - she seems to have changed overnight. Do you think she's ok?

@Graciebobcat

People thing yoga is evil? Jesus wept.

Their belief is that by emptying your mind of all thoughts that the devil then has an opportunity to take over.

People thing yoga is evil?

Absolutely- to do with the Kundalini, the serpent that sits at the bottom of our tail. Yoga uncoils the serpent.

My sister is a teacher at a large Baptist school.
They show 6 year olds that Santa is an anagram of Satan.

Other things that my sister'c church consider demonic

astrology
popular music
crystals
christmas trees
easter eggs
meditation
some MH techniques such as CBT
incense
healing work like reiki
dream analysis

Anything that has a new age type flavour.

This happened to me, I was actually already religious but don’t really speak much about it even though I attend church weekly and children participate in church (oldest son has stopped going now, he’s 19 and I’m completely happy to support his choices) and my friend was not religious at all. About 8 years ago she started going to a church and started saying things like “a the answers are in the bible” when I was moaning about my boss giving me too much work and not enough staff. When she gave up her job to stay home and basically skivvy for her husband and kids “as the bible says we should” abs said her husband was now going to make all the decisions as the head of the family I genuinely think she was having a breakdown, I tried to support her and be there for her but after a year of her criticising my lifestyle of working and my husband being at home more (I’m the main breadwinner, my husband is a firefighter so because of shifts is with the kids a lot) a let the relationship die, I get sad about it still but it wasn’t doing me any good

My friend went like this once. Very odd, praying for me in front of me, total change of behaviour. I was irritated and basically dropped her, turned out she was schizophrenic and has now been sectioned several times and hasn’t worked for years, only supervised contact with her son. I think the religious fervour kind of exacerbated things but I’m not sure. Looking back it was obvious she was unwell for a while but it happened really gradually.

You say that the two of you had discussed trying out a church. Did this idea come from her? Do you think she met the mum friend before or after?

What's the name of this new 'church'?? Sounds like a weird cult, not like any of the churches (even new ones) that I've ever been to. Can you google them, find out what you can about them? I'd probably talk to your friend's husband too, see if he's worrried.

My dad said religious fanaticism used to be more common when life was tougher. I think it's a coping mechanism.

I have real friends from different religions and we even talk about our views openly.

In your shoes I would be bricking it for my friend too!

I have no useful advice apart from the liklihood is that she will come out of this in a few months. Having said that, years ago I worked with a young woman who went to India on holiday, basically went through a similar thing to the way you describe your friends experience and moved out there. When she came back to England to pack up her life, I was astonished in the total change of personality but a light had come on inside her and decades later I understand she is happy and contented which, given the circumstances of her life in this country, is an excellent result for her.

Sounds extreme and you can only be there for her.

I had a friend who became very involved with a church, was born again. He started just being very enthusiastic about it all, I went along to a service at his request and the people were lovely, very welcoming.
There was some speaking in tongues shenanigans that made me feel a bit uncomfortable, was brought up going to very traditional C of E and Catholic churches, so it all felt a bit off kilter.
Over a few months he became more obsessive about it all, had very extravagant plans on how he was going to travel around as a missionary delivering Bibles, if I asked how he was going to achieve any of this, just mundane questions, I was always met with 'God will provide' and a slightly far away look in his eyes. I did question whether God had more pressing matters to attend to than sourcing him a free camper van, but apparantly not.
Then he vanished off the radar and a few months later turned up after being sectioned and was on some pretty strong medication. It was very sad.

I'm afraid the reality is that she has been sucked in by a cult - they can be really dangerous. Someone who used to be a family friend broke up his marriage and lost a very successful career because of this. It was a faith healing cult, he had a medical condition, and he accused his wife of poisoning the trees and causing his condition. His children had to be taken out of their fee paying school, and he lost all contact with them. The whole thing was an absolute tragedy.

There are support organisations around, including Reachout Trust. You might like to refer your friend's relatives to them.

@Oblomov21

This is not MH. This is someone who finds God late, gets involved with a very very heavy Christian group. And then they can't see or do or think of anything else. Unfortunately this happens.

This

Someone on this thread said that christians are the most persecuted? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

@MsMarch

Someone on this thread said that christians are the most persecuted? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Rude. RUDE. Just in case you need shouting at to make me more important.

I would contact her DH and offer to store the kids stuff she wants to get rid of. That way you can find his thoughts without being too intrusive and keep the kids stuff safe incase she changes her mind again.

Sounds like an extreme heavy shepherding church.

I converted to Christianity in my early 20’s. Was going to a nice charismatic Anglican Church - very normal teaching and very normal people. About 4 months in someone introduced me to a “better church”, who had real faith and were truly connected to God, unlike anglicans who were lukewarm apparently. I dived head first into better church, which looking back, had a lot of teachings I do not agree with. Completely disproportionate emphasis on spirituality, and very subtle but fierce competitiveness on being the most spiritual - praying the most, praying the most fervently, fasting the hardest. It was very very unhealthy and ended up with me having a mental breakdown (after which no one would talk to me). I had to move away to leave the church, otherwise I would have been shunned. But even they didn’t preach getting rid of TVs and phoned and games consoles. Though we did get told only the missionary position is acceptable (Sex in Marriage only obvs) and that Santa is an anagram for Satan - which misses the point that “Santa” is the word for Saint or Holy One in Spanish, Italian etc etc....

I’m now happily back a normal “boring” charismatic Anglican type. My beliefs are a huge part of me, but I can see the spiritual manipulation that is present in some Churches.

Your friend might fizzle out in her enthusiasm, or she might not. Don’t let it put you off going to church - there are some great ones about that aren’t so weird.

Sounds like one of these American type "christianity" cults, which christians like myself find very weird and controlling. Children of God was one that befriended my slightly lonely friend and seemed initially really nice but kept on calling round at her home a lot and talking to her for hours. Their modus operandi was to try to separate their new target from their previous friends and family and basically brainwash them. Luckily, my friend found them a bit intense and creepy and managed to drop them. My Canadian baptist friends think harry potter and similar fiction is evil, also blues, jazz! Many North American baptist beliefs are very different from uk ones (and rather odd).

Rude. RUDE. Just in case you need shouting at to make me more important.

I wasn't shouting. I was laughing hysterically.

I grew up next door to a pentecostal church, tried their youth club out a few times as a kid (I think my mum breathed a deep sigh of relief when I decided I hated it) worked my first job for 2 years with a pair of guys who went to said church, and when I did my first degree I studied fundamentalist Christianity for a year and did a participant observation of (joined) a large inner city pentecostal church for about three months to explore first hand why young people with no previous/family history of the church were so drawn to it, and the different ways that males and females are targeted. I would say that in my experience, your friend's sudden indoctrination sounds extreme but is common. She'll be giving 10% of her family income to them soon: evangelical churches are BIG business. It's their business model to give people a deep sense of purpose, belonging and euphoria. It can be very addictive and take over your life like working as part of a pyramid scheme.

I'm personally very anti the big organised religions. I fully appreciate what faith can give people on an individual basis, but I see it used to exploit people on a mass scale. In my view, deep rooted misogyny and classism exists within the church. If a mate of mine found Jesus I would also feel like i'd have to step away from that friendship, because I find it so toxic I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near it. I would treat it as if my friend was in an abusive relationship and just be there for her when it all comes crashing down, and if it doesn't well then maybe you need to find a new best friend. I am aware that's a really cynical view and I am sure there are tons of people who would jump to the defence of the church but to me it is too much like The Handmaid's Tale for my liking.