Friend has completely changed

[Annapops1]

Good evening all, spent a while deciding on whether or not to post this on here but after several sleepless nights I'd really appreciate some advice.

Been friends with 'sarah' for 30 years, very close almost like sisters. Godmother to each others children and always the first person to call in a crisis or with a funny story etc.

We've been chatting about faith / religion and had decided that once lockdown was over we would quite like to go to a modern church and see what it was all about. We checked it out on zoom and all looked great, rock band on stage and young speakers etc. I'm not particularly religious but after loosing my mum I'd like to think that she is still "with us" in some way.

Anyways...my friend called me to say that she'd got chatting to a school mum who goes to the said church and that they'd arranged a walk. All fine. Following the walk friend calls to tell me how amazing mum friend is and that she'd love me to meet her etc. Friend goes on another walk with mum friend, calls me later to say how this mum friend has told her about when she met God and how Harry Potter is evil and encourages children to practice witchcraft.

Fast forward and friend and mum friend have met several more times...each time I get a phone call tell me things along the lines of she has now given her body to Jesus, how she's prayed for me to be filled with God's blood, that she's taken phones off her children as they encourage unsavoury activities etc etc.

This week being half term we met up with our children for a 3 hour walk...I kid you not I got "God" the whole time. Now going back to above, I'm not the anti-christ as I was happy to explore the new church etc but this is on another level. We got to the the highest point and she raised her hands and shouted how she loves Jesus. I was then told that if I didn't accept Jesus into my heart then I'd loose my place in heaven. I tried to change the subject but to no avail.

I literally couldn't wait to get home. This was now 4 days ago and I just don't know what to think. I've not heard from her since and I feel like I've completely lost my friend. She's unrecognisable...the things she's was coming out with to me makes me think she's been practically brainwashed.

Please tell me if you think I am overreacting? If you got this far, well done

She will probably be ok. I'd avoid this church though. There are lots of great churches that don't turn their congregations into crazy, boring people. I'm religious and probably got a bit boring when I first became interested in it, but not to this extent.

Sounds more like a cult or a break down. What does her family think of all of it?

It seems as though there has been something missing from your friend's life and this school mum and her church has filled this gap. Maybe your friend has always admired this mum or even envied her and has started to hang on her every word. Ultimately, it's the same as an MLM scan. The huns proclaim to all who will listen, and those who don't want to, it's the best thing they've done/changed their lives immeasurably, etc. They, too, target the vulnerable and don't like to admit it's not all its cracked up to be. I think you'll just have to let it run its course with your friend but I'd have to tell her that her new found 'faith' (this goes way beyond having or practicing a faith though) and the fact that she shoehorns it into every conversation is very off putting and not something I want to be a part of.

@Annapops1

This is what I'm afraid of...I was quite happy to go along and explore this "modern" church but after hearing just a sample of their views I feel petrified for her. What I'm struggling with is that she's such a strong minded person but then if this is the path she's chosen I can't see much future for our friendship.

Sadly you might just have to accept the friendship is over. Perhaps explaining that you are just on a different path to her might make her see sense (a long shot l know)but like l said earlier they do sound quite cultish. And in a lot these of groups money and donations become a big thing. She may see the light and decide it wasn't for her but until then you need to look after yourself and be there if she leaves.

@Oblomov21

This is not MH. This is someone who finds God late, gets involved with a very very heavy Christian group. And then they can't see or do or think of anything else. Unfortunately this happens.

This exactly. I've seen it with family members unfortunately. Extreme views with no capability to debate or discuss them. It's a learned script that they can only recite. You either fall in with their "truth" or face eternal damnation.

@Annapops1

Sorry for my ignorance but what sort of very very heavy Christian group could this be?

Likely evangelical, Pentecostal or baptist. The “spirit-filled” type but fundamentalist American version which is super hardcore. Check out American fundamentalist “pastor” Kenneth Copeland praying for Covid on YouTube. It’s all snake oil, judgement and ultimately takes advantage of people at their most vulnerable.

Unfortunately it will only get worse and the divide between you will increase unless she decides she’s no longer Christian.

Next step will be tithing and giving money she could better spend on her kids to the church and also to American mega church ministries so their pastors can buy themselves private jets.

I used to work with some people who were into this sort of thing. They were perfectly intelligent, educated etc. they just had an absolute blind spot to how they were in a cult.

They wanted to get me involved and offered me an immersion baptism. I would probably have done it if it was in a river or the sea because that seems quite fun and I'm already baptised and confirmed, so no harm done, but it would have been in a paddling pool in a community hall so I politely declined.

They were basically good people and I mostly enjoyed their company but their underlying urge to convert people and consider non group members as lesser than them was off putting. It also made Sikh and Muslim colleagues uncomfortable - whilst they would happily share their religious holidays and food etc with us it's not like they'd be press ganging us to come to Mosque or Gurdwara.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

Oh goodness, yes, the tithing. A couple of them were really not that well off and were going without in order to tithe.

When I went to church my parents used to put a fiver in an envelope on the collection plate. Quite sufficient considering the immense property portfolio and finances of the CofE.

You've lost her to the happy flappy Jesus brigade I'm afraid. Once they get a grip you're a gonner!

Would you feel able to show her this thread? Mumsnet is fairly good at giving a cross-section of opinion from lots of different sorts of people.

I suspect this is less to do with a mental health problem and more to do with there being no zealot like a recent convert. Maybe Covid has made her feel vulnerable, maybe she was looking for a faith in her life but either way it sounds like she’s fallen prey to an extremist group. It happens; it happened to a friend of mine whose parents joined a Catholic cult when she was a teenager and kicked her out. Their behaviour went from normal people to bizarre controlling antics in a very short space of time.

I’m sure there are resources online for friends/family of cult victims (if indeed this is what she’s fallen in with; it could just be that’ she’s gone OTT initially but that will fade away) but I’d keep the channel of communication open for if/when she comes back.

Do you know her husband?

For the kids' sake, I wouldn't be able to just walk away. If there's a dad on the scene, I'd be contacting him and asking him what he thinks. Surely he can't let her act unilaterally regarding the kids' tech etc.

@Annapops1

Sorry for my ignorance but what sort of very very heavy Christian group could this be?

When you looked up the church didn't it tell you who was running it?

Hi just reading through all your replies... thank you. She has sent me some links via WhatsApp to YouTube videos "proving" that Jesus was real because his blood has been found "alive" in a rock. It apparently has only 23 chromosomes which "proves" it was born of only one parent, Mary.

She's married and I think I'll have to make contact with her hubby and see what he thinks.

@Horseshoe5

Has your friend got bipolar?

Have you any knowledge at all about serious mental health issues? Why ON EARTH would you jump to this conclusion?

Because YouTube is the fountain of all knowledge!!! I kid you not I'm terrified of butterflies and there is a video on there of one sucking blood- if that was my reasoning for being scared of them people would rightfully think I've lost it.

Your friend is vulnerable and has been manipulated by this woman/ church. She is being a bad thinker by not logically weighing up reasoning, throwing flimsy evidence at her new extreme views and not even considering an alternative view. It's extremism.

Any religion that preaches judgement and damnation is a form of control and its worrying that she has been manipulated so quickly. I am a Christian myself, and my god is a loving god who 'lives thy neighbour' not shoves hell down people's throats!

So what can you do?! The prevent strategy for schools is a good start. I'm sure there is videos available to show what grooming and extremism involves. Watch them with her, explain this is her- they may not be extreme right or terrorists but their views are about hate, and extreme. It's all you can do. If she rejects the idea. Say to her you will always be there to pick up the pieces when it comes crashing down, but don't engage anymore it's so detrimental for your own families health and well-being.

Have you any knowledge at all about serious mental health issues? Why ON EARTH would you jump to this conclusion?

I do. Serious Mental Health issues can manifest themselves in religious terms. And the type of religious organisation that appoints 'friends' to lovebomb the latest potential recruit has no way of recognising the danger their acts can place somebody already unwell by validating any psychosis/hallucination/ideation.

However, she might just have been very effectively upsold at a time where she was feeling vulnerable but without a serious mental illness.

I suffered a severe psychotic break four years ago and this is very similar to how I became when I was already high knee deep in shit, quite frankly. It started with my deceased mother ‘visiting’ my room and then I full on became God’s right hand woman. People were shocked at how fast I changed and had absolutely no idea what to do.

It could be the above. It could also very well be that she’s getting brainwashed by a cult kind of thing. Either way, she needs you. Yes, speak to her husband. Be there for her kids, they need you more than ever.

This is a typical evangelical conversion experience. There’s a lot more to come sadly. Lots of judgment of non believers, indoctrination and wacky practices. Usually the individual is vulnerable for some reason and they are looking for some deeper meaning or strength so advance with a quiet predisposition for radicalisation.

Mmmm, this sort of charasmatic, reborn church can be very extreme and it's not uncommon in the beginning for new converts (those who have "accepted Christ into their lives") to go all in, full on in the beginning and to be completely obsessed. It's like a new relationship where you just want to tell everyone how great it is.

On the plus side, this level of intensity may fade.

On the downside, if she remains part of the church, it may stop being 99% of her thinking, talking etc but the other behaviours such as obsession with only the right kind of content for children, seeing evil everywhere etc, won't.

I'm sorry. I have no advice. From experience, the key issue here is that 1. she really truly believes she has been saved from a fate worse than anything (hell) and she loves you so she really really really really really wants to save you from going to hell.

@TitusPullo

Hi Op, this sounds very much like my SM church, down to me having to hide my Harry Potter books and read them under the covers. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do, it’s a cult mentality (before you pile on me I don’t mean all churches, I mean this specific type of church). An American export. It’s very all encompassing and you will not be able to have any sort of conversation that doesn’t involve God/Jesus. It’s tiresome. I think you either have to let it go over your head and keep steering the conversation away from God or walk away. From my experience, they don’t get any less enthusiastic. The talking in tongues will follow soon.

What is SM? Strict Mormon?

What does talking in tongues mean? I've never heard that expression

I just feel so sad. I can't believe all this has happened in the space of 3 weeks. This woman has filled her head full of all kinds and I fear that from reading some of your replies it'll only get a lot worse.
I will drop her the usual chatty text messages and see what happens.
I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I've just felt so lost without her.

Please update us on what she replies

She will either want to convert you and will go full throttle to achieve this or she may cut her self off from you completely, finding you an unequal match she will emerse herself in church activities/relationships. It may take her some time to work through. Years possibly. It might be worth telling her you love her but you’re not going to discuss god from now on and you would like her to respect your request.

She's not mentally unwell, she's been brainwashed. At best she's gullible.

Be there for her op, especially when she comes back down.